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Post by pim on Apr 15, 2020 15:23:47 GMT 10
Those wet markets in Elizabethan England must have really been something. Great hit with broomstick riders and wand pointers according to the Bard ...
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Post by Stellar on Apr 15, 2020 20:41:31 GMT 10
Maori.....then....my mistake....focusing on just the grammar is just distraction bullshit banana's.
The nasty pandemics that are shutting down the globe are arising out of China's wet markets...that are not being shut down which will create more pandemics.....your the only person I know that condones these pandemics. There's a very odd thing with the maori language - they don't seem to have plurals. And in any case, they certainly didn't have a written language. It had to be all written down for them by the Brits. So I guess if we want to add an "s" then stuff 'em. But it's true enough about the pandemics - they're getting worse because viruses are smart and keep mutating. Much smarter than us - we're always 2 or 3 steps behind playing catch up. And anything we try to do to kill them off just makes them stronger. China is a fertile breeding ground for viruses because of the Chinese craving for exotic animals, their 1.4 billion population and the massive density of their cities. Of course New York City has a density about the same of some of those cities in China but the only reason they haven't hosted a pandemic is because they don't have exotic wet markets and have better hygiene. But of course that density has meant that NYC has been hit the hardest with this pandemic. New Yorkers generally don't have cars - they walk to work or by the subway. That of course means being squashed in with thousands of others in peak hours. And this in turn means they are rife for any circulating viruses. Fortunately we mostly drive to work down here. Our density is extremely low - so we've come out of this really well.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 15, 2020 21:04:50 GMT 10
Well of course in Elizabethan England, the average life expectancy was 35. 42 if you were rich!
“When sorrows come, they come not single spies but in battalions."
Claudius, Hamlet
And that's true enough …. droughts, fires, floods, pandemics. How much more can we take?
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Post by Stellar on Apr 15, 2020 21:11:04 GMT 10
What a waste of time your phony “debate” is, KTJ, with its “racist” straw man. I’ve often posted on racism and xenophobia on this board so I’m not one to trivialise the issue. But you trivialise the issue when you accuse Ponto of “racism” because he correctly identifies the wet markets of Wuhan as the source of the pandemic but doesn’t do what you want which is to spread the net as widely as possible and name every single country that has wet markets. Then no doubt you’d take him to task for failing to mention some place that has them. So if I point out that you left out PNG (it has wet markets) does that mean I can call you a racist? The United States and African nations have complained both publicly and in private over alleged racist mistreatment of Africans in China due to the coronavirus epidemic, particularly in the southern city of Guangzhou. Key points: People of African origin have reported being made homeless and having passports seized Chinese authorities say they are trying to stem imported cases The African Union, Nigeria and Ghana have summoned Chinese ambassadors In recent days, Africans in Guangzhou have reported being ejected from their apartments by their landlords, being tested for coronavirus several times without being given results and being shunned and discriminated against in public. "I've been sleeping under the bridge for four days with no food to eat, I cannot buy food anywhere, no shops or restaurants will serve me," Tony Mathias, an exchange student from Uganda who was forced from his apartment, told AFP. www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-13/us-african-nations-allege-racism-in-china-coronavirus/12143956
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 16, 2020 7:12:55 GMT 10
There's a very odd thing with the maori language - they don't seem to have plurals. And in any case, they certainly didn't have a written language. It had to be all written down for them by the Brits. So I guess if we want to add an "s" then stuff 'em. And therein is proof that Stellar is a white-trash racial supremacist who considers herself to always be superior to “darkies”. I bet Stellar would have been one of the people shooting Aborigines if she had been one of the first whitie boat-people to gatecrash the island continent now known as Australia, eh? And she'd have been boasting about it afterwards. Once a racist, ALWAYS a racist.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 7:25:17 GMT 10
When the argument is lost...holler racist.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 16, 2020 8:02:51 GMT 10
Irony is lost on him.
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Post by pim on Apr 16, 2020 8:26:14 GMT 10
Here’s the full version of the witches’ brew speech in Macbeth. These speeches are interesting for what they reveal about practices of the time. The Nurse’s Speech in Romeo and Juliet gives a very good description of mothercraft 16th century style, particularly on how they weaned children off breast feeding. But this Witches Brew chant is very “wet markets”. We like to think we’ve moved on since then.
I still haven’t worked out what a “fenny” snake is. I understand that a newt is a tiny creature so to extract its eye to be used as an ingredient must have been a painstaking business. “Finger of birth-strangled babe” is just gross and the mind boggles at the thought of there being a market for Turks’ noses and Tartar’s lips. As for Jew’s liver, given that the Holocaust happened only three quarters of a century ago during which the body parts of Jewish victims were harvested and used industrially, we haven’t moved on all that far, have we.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 16, 2020 8:53:14 GMT 10
Spells aside, the irony is, that in this day and age, the Chinese would probably be eating those ingredients in the cauldron - even the liver of the blaspheming Jew!
Talk about racism!!
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Post by Gort on Apr 16, 2020 10:22:17 GMT 10
Fenny snake:
A snake that lives in the fens of Eastern England?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 20:28:11 GMT 10
Tongue of dog...
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Post by Stellar on Apr 18, 2020 7:42:59 GMT 10
Sickening, isn't it! The WHO endorsed the re-opening of these cruel and filthy wet markets. The WHO now stands condemned by the rest of the world.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 18, 2020 7:53:44 GMT 10
Meanwhile, what does this photograph remind you of? A scene from a zombie movie, perhaps?(click on the photograph to read what it is about … hopefully those hideously-ugly Trump-supporters will all catch the convid-19 virus and die from it)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 9:24:13 GMT 10
We know how that story is going to end Kiwi Jock and serves them right.
And wet markets in modern cities have to be more regulated and stop the trade in wildlife driving animals to extinction.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 18, 2020 9:35:42 GMT 10
Trying to stop Asians indulging in trading in wildlife would be the equivalent of trying to stop christians believing in their god.
Just as christians won't shift from their beliefs that the god delusion inside their minds is a real god, so Asians likewise aren't going to change their ways when it comes to wildlife and wet markets.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 12:24:33 GMT 10
China is now making moves to stop trading (breeding)in wildlife and stopping the dog meat market as too many peoples doggie wuppie puppies are getting stolen....also the wildlife market is predominately southern asia and China...North Chinese people abhor the markets.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 18, 2020 16:37:41 GMT 10
Anyway, about this so-called collusion between the World Health Organisation and China bullshit. Because that's all it is … bullshit, plain & simple. And if by some extremely-slim chance it eventually turns out it isn't bullshit, then the Trump administration were involved in that collusion and they were up to their necks in it on behalf of the head of their administration, “Fake President” Donald J. Trump. Because scientists and doctors from the Trump administration were part of the WHO team which got involved right from the word go and you can bet they were reporting back to the Trump administration, even though the “fake president” is too dumb and has too short an attention span to be able to comprehend anything which was being reported back. And this all shows up Stellar for her racist & xenophobic bullshit because if there was a conspiracy, then it was a conspiracy between the Trump administration, the World Health Organisation and the Chinese. But you can bet that Stellar will close her mind to the FACTS of Americans being involved in the WHO team right from the beginning.
Read the following article… from The Washington Post…Trump tells a damnable and murderous lieEverything that the WHO knew, the Trump administration knew — in real time.By DANA MILBANK | 3:48PM EDT — Friday, April 17, 2020President Donald J. Trump, seen reflected in a television camera, speaks during a briefing in response to the coronavirus pandemic on Thursday. — Photograph: Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post.“It would have been so easy to be truthful.”
Thus spake President Trump this week on the very day he surpassed the milestone of uttering 18,000 falsehoods during his presidency, as tallied by The Washington Post's Fact Checker.
But on this day, Trump was not admitting to losing his own struggle with the truth. He was accusing the World Health Organization of “covering up the spread of the coronavirus” and failing to “share information in a timely and transparent fashion”. He declared he was cutting off funding for the world's public health body in the middle of a pandemic.
The next day he called the WHO a “tool of China” and floated the vile conspiracy theory that the WHO deliberately concealed the danger of the virus: “There's something going on” at the WHO “that's very bad,” and "I have a feeling they knew exactly what was going on.”
This is not merely a falsehood. This is a damnable and murderous lie.
As Trump surely knows, and as I have learned from people with knowledge of the situation who spoke to me on the condition of confidentiality, 15 officials from his administration were embedded with the WHO in Geneva, working full time, hand-in-glove with the organization on the virus from the very first day China disclosed the outbreak to the world, on December 31. At least six other U.S. officials at WHO headquarters dedicated most of their time to the virus, and two others worked remotely with the WHO on covid-19 full time. In the weeks that followed, they and other U.S. government scientists engaged in all major deliberations and decisions at the WHO on the novel coronavirus, had access to all information, and contributed significantly to the world body's conclusions and recommendations.
Everything that the WHO knew, the Trump administration knew — in real time. As congressional investigators who requested WHO documents and communications are now learning, senior Trump administration officials — Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar; the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Robert R. Redfield Jr., Anne Schuchat, Ray R. Arthur and Jeffrey McFarland; the National Institutes of Health's Anthony S. Fauci and H. Clifford Lane, and many others — consulted with the WHO throughout the crisis.
Trump came to power on the basis of smears — against opponents, immigrants and minorities. Now he prepares to center his re-election campaign on demonizing China, even though he repeatedly praised China's response to the virus, specifically that of his “very, very good friend”, Chinese President Xi Jinping. Key to this attack is making a scapegoat of the WHO, which fits his usual criteria because, like the U.N. and the World Trade Organization, it is an international entity (globalists!) run by a foreigner, Ethiopia's Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus.
But this smear is particularly deadly. As the virus bears down on less-developed countries in sub-Saharan Africa, Central and South America, and South and Southeast Asia, the WHO has had to divert attention from the pandemic to defend itself against Trump's smear and the loss of its top funding source, the United States. Thousands of Americans are dying needlessly because of Trump's dithering. How many more around the world will die because of his scapegoating of the WHO for his own failures?
Almost immediately after China disclosed the outbreak, I'm told, 15 CDC officials at the WHO headquarters began working on covid-19 and other U.S. officials there were reassigned to the outbreak from their work on Ebola. U.S. officials participated in person in the twice-daily meetings of the WHO's emergencies division. In addition to top-level conversations involving Redfield and Fauci, which would be expected, other Trump administration scientists were in all “incident-management” meetings and participated in the WHO's pandemic “expert network.” They participated in a teleconference between top WHO officials in Geneva and the WHO's regional and national offices. When the WHO formed its “emergency committee” in January to fight the virus, Martin Cetron, the CDC's head of quarantine and global migration, was on it. Schuchat, the CDC's No.2 official, and Lane, a Fauci deputy, were on the WHO's “Strategic and Technical Advisory Group for Infectious Hazards.” Others worked with the WHO group coordinating research on therapeutics, diagnostics and vaccines. This is as it should be: The CDC and NIH experts did their job. It's Trump who didn't.
Now Trump would blame the WHO for failing to sound alarms about the virus, even though the CDC had an office of 14 people in China “to contain infectious disease outbreaks before they spread globally.” And he would blame the WHO for failing “to call out China's lack of transparency” — even though, on January 24, he tweeted: “China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
Trump has decided that re-election requires him to attack the World Health Organization at the height of a pandemic. Multitudes could die for his lie.__________________________________________________________________________ • Dana Milbank is a nationally syndicated op-ed columnist. He also provides political commentary for various TV outlets, and he is the author of three books on politics: “Smashmouth: Two Years in the Gutter with Al Gore and George W. Bush” (Basic Books, 2001), the national bestseller “Homo Politicus: The Strange and Scary Tribes that Run Our Government” (Doubleday, 2008) and “Tears of a Clown: Glenn Beck and the Tea Bagging of America” (Doubleday, 2010). Milbank joined The Washington Post in 2000 as a Style political writer, then covered the presidency of George W. Bush as a White House correspondent before starting his column in 2005. Before joining The Post, Milbank spent two years as a senior editor at The New Republic, where he covered the Clinton White House, and eight years as a reporter with The Wall Street Journal, where he covered Congress and was a London-based correspondent. He has been honoured with the White House Correspodent Association's Beckman Award and the National Press Club's Gingras Prize. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/17/trump-tells-damnable-murderous-lie
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Post by pim on Apr 18, 2020 16:40:16 GMT 10
Trying to stop Asians indulging in trading in wildlife would be the equivalent of trying to stop christians believing in their god.
Just as christians won't shift from their beliefs that the god delusion inside their minds is a real god, so Asians likewise aren't going to change their ways when it comes to wildlife and wet markets. Your analogy is a false one KTJ and implies that there’s something “sacred” and “unique” and “traditional” about wet markets in some place you call “Asia” which is as hopeless a generalisation as saying that everybody in Europe, from the UK to the Urals, speaks “European”. Trading in meat from wildlife for human consumption isn’t unique to China. Don’t people go deer stalking in NZ? What happens with the venison? Left to rot? I understand that in Australia we’ve begun to harvest wild camels for their meat. As a teenager I used to go shooting rabbits with my dad. We’d do the gross stuff of skinning and gutting and my mum would deep fry it in a large cast iron Dutch oven that my parents had brought as part of their “cargo” when we emigrated. That was the advantage of coming by ship, you could throw in some sticks of furniture and a few kitchen appliances. Apparently during the Depression people turned to game meat because they couldn’t afford anything else. That’s why the South Sydney NRL club is called the Rabbitohs. They started out as a working class team. As for the other stuff you just introduced it as an excuse for a religion bash. Irrelevant. Not interested. BTW on the point of “traditional” people say that the Japanese eat whale meat as part of their “traditional” cuisine. Bullshit. It apparently occupied a niche place in Japan for centuries but what kick started it was the privations of WW2. If you looked you might find a similar story in China.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 19:16:28 GMT 10
Far from traditional is the farming of wildlife for wet markets...began in the mid 70's after the cultural revolution and famine.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 19, 2020 6:55:38 GMT 10
Why did China cut off travel to and from Wuhan to prevent the spread of the virus throughout China yet at the same time allow international flights in and out of Wuhan? Was that in order to spread the virus to the West and elsewhere?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 7:50:50 GMT 10
Speculation leads to conspiracy theories.....why didn't Trump react sooner with lockdowns to prevent a high death toll..??...simply because business came before people...Why does Trump rally his supporters to protest in Democratic held areas.....despite knowing that this mass mingling will increase the spread ....??...politics before people....and why Trump is a dangerous president.
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Post by pim on Apr 19, 2020 8:07:33 GMT 10
The guy has become a menace. The American people don’t just have a democratic choice to make this year, they have a democratic duty to perform and that’s to consign Trump and his Republicans to the dustbin of history.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 19, 2020 8:19:37 GMT 10
Why did China cut off travel to and from Wuhan to prevent the spread of the virus throughout China yet at the same time allow international flights in and out of Wuhan? Was that in order to spread the virus to the West and elsewhere? Go and ask that of Trump's people who were involved in the so-called “WHO collusion & conspiracy” with regards to the convid-19 virus and China.
Read the above excellent Washington Post article by Dana Milbank
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 9:50:22 GMT 10
When governments play business before people it will always end badly....for the people.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 19, 2020 20:48:52 GMT 10
Unfortunately without business - ie the economy, it will also end badly for people. You might have noticed all those businesses shut down and people now out of work? Many of those businesses will never re-open after this is over as they have been bankrupted. Not that it will ever be over in the sense that the virus is defeated because it will just carry on regardless mutating away till it becomes something entirely different from what we started with. And the vaccines we thought would control it become ineffective as we have to keep developing new vaccines to keep up with the various strains.
We cannot kill these viruses. We can only ward them off. The HIV/AIDS virus for example - we have antiretrovirals that suppress the virus but do not eliminate it. That means HIV/AIDS is no longer a death sentence as it was before but we will probably never have a cure. I remember doing my nursing training after these drugs came onto the market. But it was too late for the patients we were seeing in the hospice who contracted the AIDS virus in the early to mid 80s and were now presenting for palliative care in the late 90s.
I could say I gained a very healthy respect for these viruses. The most difficult problem we will have in developing a vaccine for covid-19 is that it attacks the upper respiratory system before developing into pneumonia in the lungs. The reason we will probably never develop an effective vaccine for it is the same as why we cannot develop a cure for the common cold and the flu - these viruses love the nose and the upper respiratory system and because the nose is basically an extremity of the body it is notoriously difficult to target a vaccine. That's because it's a separate immune system which isn't easily accessible by vaccine technology. Although your upper respiratory tract feels very much like it's inside your body it's actually considered an external surface for the purposes of immunisation. And that will always be the challenge.
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