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Post by Stellar on Apr 14, 2020 13:37:10 GMT 10
Communist China controls the World Health Organisation. Why does the WHO kowtow to China? In 2018, for the first time, the World Health Organization recognized traditional Chinese medicine in its influential global medical compendium.
Now, for the first time, the World Health Organization is planning to include traditional medicine diagnoses in its influential medical compendium—making it easier for a traditional Chinese medicine diagnosis such as “wood overacting Earth” to come to a clinic near you.
The WHO’s Director-General Tedros Ghebreyesus, formerly Ethiopia’s Health Minister and Foreign Minister, who trained as an epidemiologist but is not a medical doctor, thanked the PRC for its “transparency” over the spread of Covid-19 - despite the month-long delay in responding, and the coverup that included the punishment and sinister disappearance of whistle-blower doctors - and heaped particular praise on President Xi after their meeting in Beijing’s Great Hall of the People on 28 January, including for his “detailed knowledge of the outbreak”. Ignoring the fact that China concealed, destroyed, falsified, and fabricated information about the rampant spread of COVID-19.
The WHO has long been complicit in promoting Communist China. Margaret Chan was Director-General of WHO from 2006 -2017. Born in Hong Kong and now a dual national of Canada, she endorses TCM and has close ties to China. She was followed by Ethiopian Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus who has consistently refused to criticise China for its handling of the pandemic and for its refusal to close down wet markets that are the source of the virus.
The WHO chapter on traditional medicine for example. It is broad-ranging and detailed and risks legitimizing an unfounded underlying philosophy and some unscientific practice. It might contain only diagnostic criteria, but once diagnosed with a TCM-labelled condition, people will probably be prescribed TCM remedies. Whatever its aims, the WHO’s chapter is unlikely to do anything other than fuel the expanding sales of largely unproven treatments.
The Chinese demand for TCM remedies has helped to push species including tigers, rhinoceroses, sea horses and pangolins to the brink of extinction.
Dr Andrew Peters, an associate professor in wildlife health and pathology at Charles Sturt University, asserts that human interference with animal habitats is a concern when it comes to diseases.
"There's going to be intense focus on the wet markets in China as a focus for human spill-over of viruses from wildlife, and that's rightfully so," Dr Peters said.
Even donkeys are not safe from the Chinese. In the past few years, prices for these animals and their hides have jumped so high that the govts of Niger, Tanzania and Botswana, have resorted to banning exports to preserve their donkey populations. And last month, Nigeria’s government moved to make the killing and export of donkeys illegal there.
This donkey rush is driven by the annual 15-billion-yuan (US$2.2-billion) market for ejiao, a gelatin made by boiling donkey skins. It is a highly prized ingredient in traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), believed to stop bleeding and fight coughs and cancer. Demand has surged over the past few decades as China’s wealthy population has grown: a 250-gram box can sell for a US$200. As prices have risen and donkey populations have fallen inside China (from 9.4 million in 1996 to 4.6 million in 2016), the country has looked to Africa. Other animals are threatened more.
It would be totally wrong if respecting the cultural beliefs of one country, China, led to the extinction of Africa’s biological heritage, say wildlife environmentalists. Rhinos and pangolins are among the beleagured species trafficked to Chinese markets for TCM, and they hope that the WHO “will take a strong line against the use of animal products, let alone those from endangered species.”
Despite existing legal prohibitions for endangered species, the black market in illegal animal products is flourishing, with many poached animals destined for China — both for traditional medicine and other uses.
Traditional Chinese Medicine is nothing but snake oil. What I want to know is why Australian universities like UTS allowed a TCM clinic to open in the University of Technology at Ultimo and accredited the long-running Bachelor of Health Science (Traditional Chinese Medicine) and its Chinese Medicine Clinic for the past 25 years?
Why did the Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency which is Australia's independent national quality assurance and regulatory agency for higher education accredit the Sydney Institute of traditional chinese medicine courses?
Only now does the UTS intend to stop offering its degree in traditional Chinese medicine angering students and alumni who say the quality of Sydney's acupuncture and herbalist services will suffer. But the alternative is at the expense of the world's wildlife and at the expense of the world's health now we see how the trade in these animals is endangering global health. This is not to say that wildlife is used in the Australian courses - but any true advocate for TCM would not be averse to using these concoctions if they can get them into Australia - which they do.
A review of the Chinese Medicine Department found it should be wound up at the end of 2021 because it was no longer financially viable, did not produce enough research, and did not fit with the "strategic direction" of the science faculty.
But this decision by the World Health Organisation to recognise Chinese medicine in its global medical compendium this year has also raised concerns that China is promoting the 2500-year-old traditional medicine as a form of soft diplomacy.
So - now the Communist Chinese govt has brought the world's economy to the brink of collapse, why won't China close down those wet markets? And what economic obligations does China owe the rest of the world? For a start I would say that govts should seize all Chinese assets and investments as restitution - not that it will ever make up for the economic upheaval and loss of lives the rest of the world has endured and will continue to endure as more virulent viruses arise from those wet markets.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 14, 2020 13:38:14 GMT 10
The comedy show has arrived on the scene.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 14, 2020 13:46:40 GMT 10
Mere minutes to respond. Honestly, you're a pathetic irrelevant POS. Get a life and eff off.
Correction - 1 minute! What a sad and lonely life you must lead.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 14, 2020 13:53:15 GMT 10
You forgot to mention the numerous wet markets in Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia and other places.
But then again, mentioning those other wet markets wouldn't suit your xenophobic, racist, anti-Chinese views, so I guess that's why you conveniently ignored them, eh?
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Post by Gort on Apr 14, 2020 15:08:35 GMT 10
Communist China controls the World Health Organisation. Why does the WHO kowtow to China? In 2018, for the first time, the World Health Organization recognized traditional Chinese medicine in its influential global medical compendium. Now, for the first time, the World Health Organization is planning to include traditional medicine diagnoses in its influential medical compendium—making it easier for a traditional Chinese medicine diagnosis such as “wood overacting Earth” to come to a clinic near you. The WHO’s Director-General Tedros Ghebreyesus, formerly Ethiopia’s Health Minister and Foreign Minister, who trained as an epidemiologist but is not a medical doctor, thanked the PRC for its “transparency” over the spread of Covid-19 - despite the month-long delay in responding, and the coverup that included the punishment and sinister disappearance of whistle-blower doctors - and heaped particular praise on President Xi after their meeting in Beijing’s Great Hall of the People on 28 January, including for his “detailed knowledge of the outbreak”. Ignoring the fact that China concealed, destroyed, falsified, and fabricated information about the rampant spread of COVID-19. The WHO has long been complicit in promoting Communist China. Margaret Chan was Director-General of WHO from 2006 -2017. Born in Hong Kong and now a dual national of Canada, she endorses TCM and has close ties to China. She was followed by Ethiopian Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus who has consistently refused to criticise China for its handling of the pandemic and for its refusal to close down wet markets that are the source of the virus. The WHO chapter on traditional medicine for example. It is broad-ranging and detailed and risks legitimizing an unfounded underlying philosophy and some unscientific practice. It might contain only diagnostic criteria, but once diagnosed with a TCM-labelled condition, people will probably be prescribed TCM remedies. Whatever its aims, the WHO’s chapter is unlikely to do anything other than fuel the expanding sales of largely unproven treatments. The Chinese demand for TCM remedies has helped to push species including tigers, rhinoceroses, sea horses and pangolins to the brink of extinction. Dr Andrew Peters, an associate professor in wildlife health and pathology at Charles Sturt University, asserts that human interference with animal habitats is a concern when it comes to diseases. "There's going to be intense focus on the wet markets in China as a focus for human spill-over of viruses from wildlife, and that's rightfully so," Dr Peters said.Even donkeys are not safe from the Chinese. In the past few years, prices for these animals and their hides have jumped so high that the govts of Niger, Tanzania and Botswana, have resorted to banning exports to preserve their donkey populations. And last month, Nigeria’s government moved to make the killing and export of donkeys illegal there. This donkey rush is driven by the annual 15-billion-yuan (US$2.2-billion) market for ejiao, a gelatin made by boiling donkey skins. It is a highly prized ingredient in traditional Chinese medicine (TCM), believed to stop bleeding and fight coughs and cancer. Demand has surged over the past few decades as China’s wealthy population has grown: a 250-gram box can sell for a US$200. As prices have risen and donkey populations have fallen inside China (from 9.4 million in 1996 to 4.6 million in 2016), the country has looked to Africa. Other animals are threatened more. It would be totally wrong if respecting the cultural beliefs of one country, China, led to the extinction of Africa’s biological heritage, say wildlife environmentalists. Rhinos and pangolins are among the beleagured species trafficked to Chinese markets for TCM, and they hope that the WHO “will take a strong line against the use of animal products, let alone those from endangered species.” Despite existing legal prohibitions for endangered species, the black market in illegal animal products is flourishing, with many poached animals destined for China — both for traditional medicine and other uses. Traditional Chinese Medicine is nothing but snake oil. What I want to know is why Australian universities like UTS allowed a TCM clinic to open in the University of Technology at Ultimo and accredited the long-running Bachelor of Health Science (Traditional Chinese Medicine) and its Chinese Medicine Clinic for the past 25 years? Why did the Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency which is Australia's independent national quality assurance and regulatory agency for higher education accredit the Sydney Institute of traditional chinese medicine courses? Only now does the UTS intend to stop offering its degree in traditional Chinese medicine angering students and alumni who say the quality of Sydney's acupuncture and herbalist services will suffer. But the alternative is at the expense of the world's wildlife and at the expense of the world's health now we see how the trade in these animals is endangering global health. This is not to say that wildlife is used in the Australian courses - but any true advocate for TCM would not be averse to using these concoctions if they can get them into Australia - which they do. A review of the Chinese Medicine Department found it should be wound up at the end of 2021 because it was no longer financially viable, did not produce enough research, and did not fit with the "strategic direction" of the science faculty. But this decision by the World Health Organisation to recognise Chinese medicine in its global medical compendium this year has also raised concerns that China is promoting the 2500-year-old traditional medicine as a form of soft diplomacy. So - now the Communist Chinese govt has brought the world's economy to the brink of collapse, why won't China close down those wet markets? And what economic obligations does China owe the rest of the world? For a start I would say that govts should seize all Chinese assets and investments as restitution - not that it will ever make up for the economic upheaval and loss of lives the rest of the world has endured and will continue to endure as more virulent viruses arise from those wet markets. No doubt about it, those wet markets are a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 15:23:14 GMT 10
Its China that has the huge markets and causing the global pandemics one after another.....and please don't go look over here and shout racist argument over such a serious matter KTJ, that just a bullshit banana market.
Singapore closed its markets with much hollering and protest from its citizens, its our livelihoods waaahhhh...and moved on successfully, Singapore also stopped its citizens from gob spitting on the streets and pavements.
WHO only last week, 2 days ago was calling for wet markets to stop selling wildlife...I don't know why the about face, the rest of the world should tear up free trade agreements with China and retaliate until it stops its wet markets trafficking illegal wildlife as with the rest of Asia...fuck em...they obviously don't give a shit about anyone else on the planet, indeed they are spitting on us.
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Post by pim on Apr 14, 2020 15:34:14 GMT 10
Wow, Stellar you and Buzz appear to be kindred spirits. He's recently resurfaced on Fat's board as "Boris". Currently he posts on child abuse in indigenous communities in the NT and ... let's just say he labours the point! Ad nauseam! The problem is that in order to get to the real issue of child abuse in those communities you have to wade up to your neck - and beyond - in white supremacist diatribe which kinda kills the point he makes about child abuse.
As regards your post I agree with you about the wet markets and I think that in our lifetime the species jump from animal to human that has been made by microscopic nasties that want to kill us has been in no small measure due to human despoliation of natural environments - especially virgin rainforests - that has upset natural ecological balances. Yes overpopulation is a related issue but it's not the only issue. The Malaysian interests that log virgin rainforests in PNG, Kalimantan and Sumatra, as well as the logging interests in partnership with the fast food industry who log the Amazon in order to "turn forests into hamburgers" by selling the logged timber and turning what had been woodland into pasture for cattle destined to become the mince in Maccas hamburgers, these aren't population issues. But the ecological impact for the planet is off the scale and who knows what sorts of bugs that have existed within their own equilibrium for millennia are now out there looking for new hosts - including humans!
The question of wet markets for me personally is a no-brainer but that's because I have no desire to include roast bat or stewed dog or fricasseed monkey on my menu, anymore than if I get sick I'd look for "traditional" Chinese medicine. I'd rather fight off the COVID-19 virus by staying at home, practising hygiene, washing my hands frequently with soap and water and practising social distance rather than take a dose of tiger's bile. I suppose in an ideal world we'd all be vegans and eschew animal products altogether but that's not me. We enjoyed a tasty meal of roast pork last weekend with all the trimmings: crackling, a very nice gravy, apple sauce, roast potato and steamed greens. I hasten to add that we cooked it ourselves at home. Inevitably there was some roast pork left over and we had it today, cold, on a bread roll for lunch. So much for becoming a vegan!! I have to say parenthetically that I think I'm having a good "lockdown". We're certainly eating well! As regards eating the meat of animals that you and I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, where does "culture" end and health considerations begin? I've enjoyed horsemeat in restaurants in Europe and crocodile meat in restaurants in Darwin. But snakes and lizards? As an aside can I ask you as a health professional (which I certainly am not) is it true that the venom from a snake or a spider can have pharmaceutical possibilities? I ask because I don't know beyond hearsay. If that's true then to me it would be quite OK to harvest the venom of those creatures if, in the right hands and by duly qualified people - and that doesn't include "traditional" Chinese herbalists, they could be used in therapies to make sick people well again.
Stellar this is a huge topic and there's too much to unpack to be able to answer you in a post. While I agree about the wet markets I worry about our Western diets too with its high salt and sugar content. Maybe it begins at home. If we treated processed food in the same way that we treat cigarettes and put health warnings on the packets, and encouraged more organic markets then maybe we just might be in a stronger position to critique the Chinese.
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Post by pim on Apr 14, 2020 16:22:57 GMT 10
Since we're talking about food, where we get it from and what we do with it .. What a simulated Mars mission taught me about food wasteApril 10, 2020 theconversation.com/what-a-simulated-mars-mission-taught-me-about-food-waste-132010As a food waste researcher, I’m interested in how humans prepare food, eat and manage leftovers. This interest is not just confined to Earth – it extends to other planets. I recently spent two weeks at the Mars Desert Research Station in the US state of Utah, and experienced the intimate and challenging conditions of a Mars mission simulation. I was part of a small, isolated team of four with limited choice of food, preparation and cooking options. I wanted to know how these conditions would affect the food waste we generated. This research is particularly pertinent now, as COVID-19 forces people into social isolation and raises the (real or imagined) risk of food scarcity. The Mars Desert Research Station in Utah simulates life on the red planet.Measuring wasteAccording to the latest figures, in 2016-17 Australia produced 7.3 million tonnes of food waste. And every year, each one of us sends almost 300kg of food to landfill. Meanwhile, an estimated 5% of Australians experience food insecurity – inadequate access to, supply of and use of food. Food waste in landfill produces methane, a potent greenhouse gas. Tackling this is a key part of taking action on climate change. The Mars Desert Research Station is run by the Mars Society, a volunteer-driven non-government organisation dedicated to the human exploration and settlement of the red planet. Food waste in landfill produces methane, a potent greenhouse gas.The first agenda item of the daily team meeting each morning was developing the day’s menu. Sharing meals encouraged social cohesion. My research involved detailing the quantities and nutritional profile of our food waste over the fortnight, comparing inputs with the waste generated. I collected data for spoilage, preparation and “plate waste” – the food served but not eaten. It was a painstaking process. For each meal, I weighed chopping boards, pots, pans, dishes and utensils containing food scraps. I then washed, dried and reweighed them. I calculated macronutrients (the main nutrients in the food we eat) as well as micronutrients (those needed by living organisms in tiny amounts). The author weighed pots and pans to gather her results.Food: appreciated, but wastedAustralian households waste around 1.325 kilograms of food each week; our crew produced less than one-tenth of that. This is not surprising as the food supplied was not perishable, being either dehydrated or tinned. Most waste (86%) was produced during preparation (for example, thick soup stuck to a pot) and 12% was left on plates. The need to rehydrate food and then cook large meals suitable for sharing (such as rice and pasta) meant food was commonly left in pots and pans. They are stickier, and the food is more commonly overproduced. Carbohydrates were wasted more than fats or proteins. Carbohydrates such as rice, spaghetti and flour comprised 57% of the total food supply but contributed 63% of waste. This is not unusual – carbohydrates provide less nutrient density but more bulk than protein or fats, and are often cheaper. We value individual items in a meal subjectively, and sometimes consciously ensure the most valuable components are fully consumed. Affluent societies, where food is assured, may not see reducing waste as a necessity, or may value time saving, illness prevention, or freshness over waste avoidance. But research has shown less waste occurs when food availability is constrained, such as during economic downturns. But even then, some food is still wasted. Food prepared at the Mars research stationGetting the results rightI didn’t want my own low-waste food behaviour to influence my fellow crew members. So unlike them, I consumed a protein shake-based meal for every meal. Monotonous, but necessary to avoid skewed results. But my colleagues knew I was monitoring them, and they modified their behaviour - a phenomenon known as the Hawthorne Effect. One crew member said he was conscious to waste less food during preparation and dining. Another said being observed liberated him to dine like he would at home, cleaning his plate entirely, rather than leaving some uneaten (a social custom in some cultures). The third crew member began keeping water used to rehydrate one meal, and using it to rehydrate the next meal – something he might not have done if not being observed. This indicates my results probably underestimated how much food would be wasted in an unmonitored scenario. It’s worth noting our crew wasn’t trained in food and nutrient waste minimisation; trained Mars astronauts may produce less waste. Participants at the Mars research station wearing space suits to go outside.Know more, do betterMy research highlights that non-perishable food can create less waste in constrained circumstances - a finding highly relevant during the COVID-19 pandemic. Also, waste is more likely when preparing meals that alter in form (such as cooking dried rice) and/or combine multiple ingredients. Also, waste is generated differently due to individual human behaviour responses and our socioeconomic background. These lessons are timely. Member states of the United Nations, including Australia, aim to halve food waste by 2030. These steps can help: 1. Buy only what you need, and will use 2. If you run a food business, divert excess consumable food to food rescue organisations and charities that feed the hungry 3. Where possible, give food waste to animals, such as backyard chooks 4. Composting food in your backyard or a community garden 5. Allow ample time to eat, as more waste is generated during rushed mealtimes. Humans crave a variety and abundance of food. But self-interest should not allow us to deplete what is actually a shared, limited resource. Read also: - ‘I could sow the seeds of a new civilisation’: Mars One hopeful’s vision of a stellar future theconversation.com/i-could-sow-the-seeds-of-a-new-civilisation-mars-one-hopefuls-vision-of-a-stellar-future-37777- Melbourne wastes 200 kg of food per person a year: it’s time to get serious theconversation.com/melbourne-wastes-200-kg-of-food-per-person-a-year-its-time-to-get-serious-60236
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 16:58:55 GMT 10
Stellar was highlighting the fact the WHO gave the tic to China to carry on regardless with its wet markets. Ya know like WTF. As for Boris...he/she is right, there is turning a blind eye to Aboriginal initiation practices that includes homosexual acts on young boys and other perverse actions...it ain't right in this day and age as with wet markets.
As for food waste, I compost, have a worm farm and chooks...there is no waste.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 14, 2020 18:06:42 GMT 10
Boris/Buzzy-boy is a clown. Period.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2020 23:00:48 GMT 10
Yabbering on about Boris is just a distraction from the wet markets topic...wet markets are primitive.
Maori's no longer practice primitive cannibalism....so why condone other primitive nasty stuff.
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Post by Gort on Apr 15, 2020 0:37:26 GMT 10
Yabbering on about Boris is just a distraction from the wet markets topic...wet markets are primitive. Maori's no longer practice primitive cannibalism....so why condone other primitive nasty stuff. I'm a little disappointed that Boris has not set his avatar to: "Allow me to introducing myself. I am Boris Badenov, world's greatest no-goodnik." BTW ... I have a loose "agreement" with Boris ... he leaves me alone and I leave him alone. Works pretty well I find.
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Post by Gort on Apr 15, 2020 0:58:39 GMT 10
Meanwhile ... back to Stellar's point:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 5:24:06 GMT 10
Wait until the next virus pandemic spawned in a wet market that has a 70% death rate....that will cure the problem of illegal animal trade and over population.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 15, 2020 5:33:00 GMT 10
Yabbering on about Boris is just a distraction from the wet markets topic...wet markets are primitive. Maori's no longer practice primitive cannibalism....so why condone other primitive nasty stuff. DUMBFUCK … the plural of Maori is Maori.
There is NO letter “s” in Te Reo.
Only racists add that letter “s” due to their pig-ignorance.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 15, 2020 5:34:45 GMT 10
Wait until the next virus pandemic spawned in a wet market that has a 70% death rate....that will cure the problem of illegal animal trade and over population. You'd better preach that to Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia, all of whom have shitloads of wet markets.
Or are you like Stellar, who'd prefer to not mention those other countries, because it might water down her anti-Chinese racism?
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 15, 2020 5:53:08 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 9:07:47 GMT 10
Maori.....then....my mistake....focusing on just the grammar is just distraction bullshit banana's.
The nasty pandemics that are shutting down the globe are arising out of China's wet markets...that are not being shut down which will create more pandemics.....your the only person I know that condones these pandemics.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 15, 2020 9:13:24 GMT 10
Maori.....then....my mistake....focusing on just the grammar is just distraction bullshit banana's. The nasty pandemics that are shutting down the globe are arising out of China's wet markets...that are not being shut down which will create more pandemics.....your the only person I know that condones these pandemics. Just as I thought.
You ignore wet markets all throughout Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam and Cambodia because it doesn't suit your xenophobic agenda.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 15, 2020 9:17:27 GMT 10
Its China that has the huge markets and causing the global pandemics one after another.....and please don't go look over here and shout racist argument over such a serious matter KTJ, that just a bullshit banana market. Singapore closed its markets with much hollering and protest from its citizens, its our livelihoods waaahhhh...and moved on successfully, Singapore also stopped its citizens from gob spitting on the streets and pavements. WHO only last week, 2 days ago was calling for wet markets to stop selling wildlife...I don't know why the about face, the rest of the world should tear up free trade agreements with China and retaliate until it stops its wet markets trafficking illegal wildlife as with the rest of Asia...fuck em...they obviously don't give a shit about anyone else on the planet, indeed they are spitting on us. So why the about face? It's an economic decision. The WHO has always been pro China. China deliberately held back vital information on the virus, whilst allowing their citizens to travel across the globe infecting everyone in their way. Scott Morrison has described as “unfathomable” the World Health Organization’s support for the reopening of live exotic animal wet markets. "We need to protect the world against potential sources of outbreaks of these types of viruses. It’s happened too many times. I’m totally puzzled by this decision,” Prime Minister Scott Morrison told Nine Network television on Tuesday. “I think that’s unfathomable, frankly.” The WHO’s decision to support the reopening of exotic animal wet markets has bolstered speculation worldwide that the Chinese government has undue influence over the United Nations agency. Professor John Dwyer, an immunologist at UNSW and public health expert who spearheaded Australia’s fight against HIV/AIDS, says it’s unlikely the markets will remain shut for long, despite the risks they pose. “It’s such a culturally important thing for some people in China that I’ve got my doubts.” He said the wet markets are notorious for spreading new and deadly diseases. “When you bring wild exotic animals in close contact with humans… of course it’s going to be possible that the viruses will mutate, and pass from animals into humans and cause havoc. “It is staggering to think that’s going on.” Frankly, I'd agree with the US who are the major contributors to the WHO, that they should put their funding on hold. And Australia too for that matter. There should be consequences for this sort of irresponsible behaviour from an organisation that should be promoting world health - rather than putting it at risk!
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 15, 2020 9:19:25 GMT 10
QUICK, Stellar. Your hero is currently talking bullshit & stupidity LIVE. You cant watch it by clicking HERE.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 15, 2020 9:28:27 GMT 10
As regards eating the meat of animals that you and I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, where does "culture" end and health considerations begin? I've enjoyed horsemeat in restaurants in Europe and crocodile meat in restaurants in Darwin. But snakes and lizards? As an aside can I ask you as a health professional (which I certainly am not) is it true that the venom from a snake or a spider can have pharmaceutical possibilities? I ask because I don't know beyond hearsay. If that's true then to me it would be quite OK to harvest the venom of those creatures if, in the right hands and by duly qualified people - and that doesn't include "traditional" Chinese herbalists, they could be used in therapies to make sick people well again. We already harvest the venom of snakes and spiders. At present this is used for antivenoms. Many pharmaceuticals are derived from animal toxins. Don't ask me to list them because I don't know the source of them and that's rarely covered when doing medication training. There's one that I do remember because it was discontinued from use in the US but is still available here - Capoten, an ACE inhibitor derived from a pit viper's toxin. But outright cruelty to animals should never be an accepted practice. Such as bear bile farms. Bear bile is extracted using various invasive techniques, all of which cause severe suffering, pain and infection. The method claimed to be the most 'humane' by bile farmers, is 'free-drip' method, where bears undergo surgery to create a permanent open passage from their gallbladder through their abdomen. Bear bile farms are legal in China. But ursodial (extracted from the bile) is manufactured synthetically so no need for cruel inhumane treatment of bears. This all makes a mockery of the WHO's "inclusion of stronger animal welfare and ethical compliance messages (chapter 3) to reinforce the importance of humane use of animals in the production of antivenoms."
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Post by pim on Apr 15, 2020 9:35:15 GMT 10
What a waste of time your phony “debate” is, KTJ, with its “racist” straw man. I’ve often posted on racism and xenophobia on this board so I’m not one to trivialise the issue. But you trivialise the issue when you accuse Ponto of “racism” because he correctly identifies the wet markets of Wuhan as the source of the pandemic but doesn’t do what you want which is to spread the net as widely as possible and name every single country that has wet markets. Then no doubt you’d take him to task for failing to mention some place that has them. So if I point out that you left out PNG (it has wet markets) does that mean I can call you a racist?
A more productive critique would be to look at our own culinary and dietary culture and its impact on our health. I mean, it begins at home doesn’t it? Should processed and packaged food carry government health warnings regarding its sugar and/or salt content? Or its saturated fat? We have health warnings on cigarette packets, and mandate plain packaging and this has been praised as a sound public health promotion measure. Why not packaged and processed food? And why stop there? Why not mandate that consumer information be provided so that we’re aware of the amount of chemical fertilisers in the so-called “fresh” produce on supermarket shelves? Ever tasted the difference between home grown tomatoes from your veggie patch and the bland tasteless ones you get in the supermarket? Why not a critique of our own food culture? It begins at home doesn’t it?
But no you prefer the lazy road, the easy sneer.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 13:38:37 GMT 10
As mentioned previously and was ignored by KTJ all wet markets should be banned....they are extreme markets and ticking time bombs....it is China that hasn't the largest market and most wildlife consumption hence the pandemics that inflict the world is being spawned in China's markets.
China and other countries may have argued to the WHO that the small farmers and traders who rely on these markets for livelihood, China especially has the financial ability to change from what is deemed traditional warm meat markets....and join modernity.
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Post by pim on Apr 15, 2020 14:55:25 GMT 10
I get it that wet markets can be a valuable source of food in poor basket case countries that don't have the agribusinesses and distribution networks of countries like Australia and NZ. So that explains PNG, and maybe Bangladesh and a slew of countries in Africa. But China is far from being "basket case": en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_ChinaAn interesting comparison is with Australia where according to the Canberra Times one in eight people in Australia currently live "below the poverty line". www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6641748/one-in-eight-australians-living-in-poverty/?cs=14231And in NZ? Well well! So NZ doesn't like to hang out its dirty "lunnen" so it doesn't collect the data and make it freely available! Definitely something I'd hope Jacinda Ardern would do something about! One thing is clear though, China is far from being "poor". It has the resources and the know how to educate its people away from those wet markets that put the rest of the world so much at risk. Just "thunk": from one person who first caught Covid-19 from an animal in a wet market in Wuhan it's spread around the world to infect millions, and all in 4 months. No it's not just the Chinese and I abhor the vile racism that's being directed against Chinese Australians over this issue. There are all sorts of practices that once were acceptable that we now either strongly disapprove of (like smoking tobacco, or spitting in public) or that we've banned - like child labour or food preparation in food stores or restaurants that fail to meet minimum health standards. We can argue about both of those things and point out that we've probably all bought clothes or children's toys that have been made in sweatshops by child labour in low wage countries and yes that's an issue. But that doesn't invalidate that for the most part we disapprove of child labour and have passed laws against it. You, KTJ condemn America for not living up to its values and also for trampling on the rights of other countries. And fair enough. These days America - and it didn't just start with Trumps but it's having its golden age under Trump - seems to revel in portraying itself to the world as a dysfunctional dystopia that prides itself on being the world's model of how NOT to run a country. But it's not alone. You seem to think that if you condemn America therefore you have to let China off the hook. No way!
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