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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 19, 2020 22:18:19 GMT 10
Unfortunately without business - ie the economy, it will also end badly for people. You might have noticed all those businesses shut down and people now out of work? Many of those businesses will never re-open after this is over as they have been bankrupted. Not that it will ever be over in the sense that the virus is defeated because it will just carry on regardless mutating away till it becomes something entirely different from what we started with. And the vaccines we thought would control it become ineffective as we have to keep developing new vaccines to keep up with the various strains. We cannot kill these viruses. We can only ward them off. The HIV/AIDS virus for example - we have antiretrovirals that suppress the virus but do not eliminate it. That means HIV/AIDS is no longer a death sentence as it was before but we will probably never have a cure. I remember doing my nursing training after these drugs came onto the market. But it was too late for the patients we were seeing in the hospice who contracted the AIDS virus in the early to mid 80s and were now presenting for palliative care in the late 90s. I could say I gained a very healthy respect for these viruses. The most difficult problem we will have in developing a vaccine for covid-19 is that it attacks the upper respiratory system before developing into pneumonia in the lungs. The reason we will probably never develop an effective vaccine for it is the same as why we cannot develop a cure for the common cold and the flu - these viruses love the nose and the upper respiratory system and because the nose is basically an extremity of the body it is notoriously difficult to target a vaccine. That's because it's a separate immune system which isn't easily accessible by vaccine technology. Although your upper respiratory tract feels very much like it's inside your body it's actually considered an external surface for the purposes of immunisation. And that will always be the challenge. So there's hope it might kill off a large proportion of the stupid righties and racists? Excellent news!!!
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Post by pim on Apr 19, 2020 23:29:05 GMT 10
Ignore KTJs useless comment Stellar. There's an Amsterdam saying my parents, both Amsterdammers, used to come out with if you were silly enough to say something stupid and useless as a "contribution" to a conversation: "Spuit Elf" which means "spout #11". To explain: the canals of Amsterdam were originally dug by hand centuries ago and they'd have to be drained regularly lest they get foetid and smelly. So they'd pump the water out. Traditionally it would take 10 pumps to drain a canal so that they could get rid of the dead cats or dead people that might be slowly fossilizing in the mud and sludge. They'd pump and pump ... until mud oozed out of a nozzle instead of water. Traditionally that would be the 11th spout ("Spuit") so the shout would be "Spout #11 gives mud!" It became an Amsterdam "thing" and "Spout 11", the one that spews forth mud and sludge instead of water, entered into the lexicon and into the realm of metaphor and imagery. That's KTJ when he decides to turn your cogent and informative post on viruses into a fart in a crowded lift.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 7:52:48 GMT 10
The virus will pass be controlled in time....and business will rebound....it is fortunate in Australia we have a system that will look after its people with certainty, unlike the US which is all business, that has led to uncertainty and protest in the streets.
No cure for the common cold, hopefully a vaccine can be produced that helps resist the disiease.
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Post by pim on Apr 20, 2020 8:55:23 GMT 10
Unfortunately without business - ie the economy, it will also end badly for people. You might have noticed all those businesses shut down and people now out of work? Many of those businesses will never re-open after this is over as they have been bankrupted. Not that it will ever be over in the sense that the virus is defeated because it will just carry on regardless mutating away till it becomes something entirely different from what we started with. And the vaccines we thought would control it become ineffective as we have to keep developing new vaccines to keep up with the various strains. It seems to me that the basic flaw in Scott Morrison’s “snap back” scenario is that by hermetically sealing off Australia from human interaction with the rest of the planet (nobody let in or out), and by practising social distance within this hermetically sealed “Fortress Australia” we can stop the virus in its tracks and eliminate it within Australia at which point we get the “all clear” and the economy can “snap back”. As a theoretical model it has a lot going for it and from a medical point of view it’s probably quite a good strategy. But from the point of view of the economy you’ll have the Australian people emerging from having been sequestered in their houses and into an autarky. This sort of scenario would only be possible in a 1950s economy. You’d have to rip up every free trade deal and it’s back to the highly regulated “mixed economy” of our youth with big government overseeing everything. Pauline Hanson would love it. Thanks for those two paragraphs. I got more insight and understanding of what viruses are from them than from anything else that I’ve read online.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 20, 2020 13:27:36 GMT 10
from The Washington Post…Americans at World Health Organization transmitted real-time information about coronavirus to Trump administrationThe presence of U.S. scientists in Geneva undercuts president's argument that the WHO failed to communicate with Washington D.C.By KAREN DeYOUNG, LENA H. SUN and EMILY RAUHALA | 4:46PM EDT — Sunday, April 19, 2020The World Health Organization building in Geneva on February 6. — Photograph: Denis Balibouse/Reuters.MORE THAN a dozen U.S. researchers, physicians and public health experts, many of them from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, were working full time at the Geneva headquarters of the World Health Organization as the novel coronavirus emerged late last year and transmitted real-time information about its discovery and spread in China to the Trump administration, according to U.S. and international officials.
A number of CDC staff members are regularly detailed to work at the WHO in Geneva as part of a rotation that has operated for years. Senior Trump-appointed health officials also consulted regularly at the highest levels with the WHO as the crisis unfolded, the officials said.
The presence of so many U.S. officials undercuts President Trump's assertion that the WHO's failure to communicate the extent of the threat, born of a desire to protect China, is largely responsible for the rapid spread of the virus in the United States.
The administration has also sharply criticized the Chinese government for withholding information.
But the president, who often touts a personal relationship with Chinese President Xi Jinping and is reluctant to inflict damage on a trade deal with Beijing, appears to view the WHO as a more defenseless target.
In a statement provided to The Washington Post after online publication of this article, Caitlin B. Oakley, a spokeswoman for the Department of Health and Human Services, confirmed that in January, HHS had 17 staff members, including 16 from the CDC, at the WHO, “working on a variety of programs, including covid-19 and Ebola.” She emphasized that the staff members were not “decision-makers.”
“Furthermore, I'd add that just because you have Americans embedded in WHO providing technical assistance does not change the information you are getting from WHO leadership,” Oakley said in an email. “We have learned now that WHO information was incorrect and relied too heavily on China.” Questioning why the WHO “did not press China harder,” she said that “the lack of transparency aided and abided by WHO leadership hampered understanding of the virus and delayed the global response.”
China “stalled for weeks” in allowing WHO experts to visit in January and February, Oakley said, “and the WHO never criticized them for the delay and even praised China for its ‘transparency’.” Until recently, Trump has repeatedly praised China for “working really hard” on the virus, and during this same period offered thanks for “their efforts and transparency.”
“It will all work out well,” he tweeted in late January. “On behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi.”
Asked earlier on Sunday about the presence of CDC and other officials at the WHO, and whether it was “fair to blame the WHO for covering up the spread of this virus,” Deborah Birx, the State Department expert who is part of the White House pandemic team, gently shifted the onus to China, and the need to “over-communicate.”
“It's always the first country that gets exposed to the pandemic that has a — really a higher moral obligation on communicating, on transparency, because all the other countries around the world are making decisions on that,” Birx told ABC's This Week. “And when we get through this as a global community, we can figure out really what has to happen for first alerts and transparency and understanding very early on about … how incredibly contagious this virus is.”
Following a Trump-hosted video conference of the leaders of the Group of Seven industrialized nations on Thursday, a White House statement said that “much of the conversation centered on the lack of transparency and chronic mismanagement of the pandemic by the WHO.”
The group's focus on the global health organization during the call stemmed largely from Trump's announcement two days earlier that he was freezing all U.S. funding for it, saying donors would be discussing “what do we do with all of that money that goes to WHO.” The United States provides up to $500 million a year in assessed and voluntary contributions, significantly more than any other nation.
In statements following the G-7 call, however, other leaders emphasized the need to build up the WHO, rather than tear it down.
French President Emmanuel Macron “expressed his support for the WHO and underscored the key role it must play,” according to a statement from his office. German Chancellor Angela Merkel “made clear that the pandemic can only be defeated with a strong and coordinated international response,” her spokesman said. “In this context, she expressed full support for the WHO as well as a number of other partners.”
German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas warned that the WHO “cannot be weakened or in any way be called into question politically…. Every inch that the U.S. withdraws from the wider world, especially at this level, is space that will be occupied by others — and that tends to be those that don't share our values of liberal democracy,” he said.
Canada, Japan and the European Union — all of whom participated in the call — also issued strong statements backing the organization.
A G-7 statement issued after the call supported the need to review the WHO's performance. “We cannot have business as usual and must ask the hard questions about how [the pandemic] came about,” said British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab, standing in for virus-stricken Prime Minister Boris Johnson. But he stressed that a post-crisis review should be “driven by science.”
In announcing the funding cutoff, Trump said last week that the WHO parroted incorrect Chinese statements and “failed to investigate credible reports … that conflicted directly with the Chinese government's official accounts.” He criticized “the inability of the WHO to obtain virus samples” that China continues to refuse to supply.
A Senate aide who has tracked the issue said “there was clearly an effort” by China “not to provide transparent data and information” in the early stages of the outbreak.
“We were looking to WHO to provide that information, and they did not. It was unclear as to whether they didn't get that transparency from the Chinese, or that they chose not to share what they did get under pressure from the Chinese,” said the aide, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter.
But some noted that the WHO has no power to compel member governments to do its bidding.
The organization “has no intelligence capabilities, and no investigatory power,” said Daniel Spiegel, who served as ambassador to the United Nation's Geneva-based organizations, including the WHO, for the Clinton administration. “They should have been more skeptical about what the Chinese were telling them, but they're totally at the mercy of what governments provide.”
Among his complaints, Trump seems most aggrieved by the initial WHO failure to support his January 31 decision to partly ban incoming travel from China. Days later, at a meeting of the WHO executive board, Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said there was no need to “unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade” to stop the spread of the disease. That message reiterated what he had said before Trump's announcement, after meeting with Xi in Beijing.
Trump called Tedros's statement “one of the most dangerous and costly decisions from the WHO…. They were very much opposed to what we did,” he said last week. “Fortunately, I was not convinced and suspended travel from China, saving untold numbers of lives.”
International public health experts have long debated whether border closures helped stem the spread of infectious diseases, or worsen the situation by blocking cooperation among countries. But many, including Anthony S. Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and a leading member of the administration's coronavirus task force, have said it was probably helpful in this case as the efforts of individual countries to contain and mitigate the virus were outpaced by its rapid global spread.
On Saturday, Trump said without elaboration that “we're finding more and more problems” with the WHO. Speaking at a White House virus briefing, he said the administration was “doing some research” on “other ways” to spend money originally intended for both the WHO and the National Institutes of Health, which he said was “giving away $32 billion a year.”
The meaning of Trump's reference to NIH, whose fiscal 2020 budget totals $41.6 billion, was unclear.
The administration's 2019 Global Health Security Strategy advocates increased cooperation with the WHO and other international health organizations. But although the United States has a three-year seat on the WHO executive board, expiring in 2021, the post has remained vacant. Trump nominated Assistant Secretary for Health Brett Giroir for the position three times — in late 2018, early 2019 and again last month, although the Senate has yet to confirm him.
U.S. participation in the range of Geneva-based U.N. organizations is supervised by the State Department's Bureau of International Organization Affairs, whose assistant secretary left office in November after the department's inspector general issued a broad condemnation of his leadership, including “political harassment” of career officials deemed insufficiently loyal to Trump. It is currently headed in an acting capacity by a deputy.
But below the level of political appointments, communication between the U.S. government's public health bureaucracy and the WHO has continued throughout the Trump administration.
In addition to working at the WHO, on assignments first reported on Saturday by Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank, CDC officials are often members of its many advisory groups. The emergency committee advising the organization on whether to declare “a public health emergency of international concern” during deliberations in mid to late January included Martin Cetron, director for the CDC's Division of Global Migration and Quarantine.
When China eventually agreed to let a joint WHO mission into the country in mid-February, it included two U.S. scientists among 25 national and international experts from eight countries, although the Americans were not permitted to visit the “core area” in Wuhan.
From the beginning of the outbreak, CDC officials were tracking the disease and consulting with WHO counterparts. A team led by Ray Arthur, director of the Global Disease Detection Operations Center at the CDC, compiles a daily summary about infectious disease events and outbreaks, categorized by level of urgency, that is sent to agency officials.
Arthur, according to a CDC official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations, has participated in the CDC daily “incident management” calls, discussing information he learned from WHO officials.
Information is passed up a chain of command from the CDC to the Department of Health and Human Services in daily reports and telephone discussions, this official said.
Any information of a sensitive nature about the growing outbreak was and continues to be shared by CDC officials with other U.S. officials in a secure facility located behind the CDC's Emergency Operations Center at its Atlanta headquarters.
In the early days of the virus response, those officials included HHS Secretary Alex Azar. Information about what the WHO was planning to do or announce was often shared days in advance, the CDC official said.__________________________________________________________________________ • Anne Gearan and Yasmeen Abutaleb contributed to this report.• Karen DeYoung is associate editor and senior national security correspondent for The Washington Post. In more than three decades at the paper, she has served as bureau chief in Latin America and London and as correspondent covering the White House, U.S. foreign policy and the intelligence community. She has been assistant managing editor for national news, national editor and foreign editor. She has won numerous awards for national and international reporting and is the author of “Soldier: A Biography of Colin Powell”, a biography of Colin Powell. She earned a B.S. in journalism from University of Florida in 1971. • Lena H. Sun is a national reporter for The Washington Post covering health, with a special focus on public health and infectious disease. A long-time reporter at The Post, she has covered a variety of beats, including the Metro transit system, immigration and education. She has also served as The Washington Post's Beijing bureau chief. Sun holds a B.S. in communication from Cornell University and a M.A. in journalism from Columbia University. • Emily Rauhala writes about foreign affairs, with a focus on Canada, for The Washington Post. She spent a decade as an editor and correspondent in Asia, first for Time magazine and later, from 2015 to 2018, as China correspondent in Beijing for The Post. In 2017, she shared an Overseas Press Club award for a series about the Internet in China. She was awarded a B.A in political science at Queen's University in 2005, a M.A. in international relations at University of Toronto in 2006 and a M.S. in journalism at Columbia University in 2007. Rauhala also speaks fluent Chinese and French. __________________________________________________________________________ Related to this topic: • VIDEO: How Trump and the World Health Organization ended up on a collision course • REUTERS VIDEO: Global condemnation of Trump's WHO funding freeze • U.S. sent millions of face masks to China early this year, ignoring warning about emerging pandemic • Trump's focus on WHO may resonate but it may be a diversionwww.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/americans-at-world-health-organization-transmitted-real-time-information-about-coronavirus-to-trump-administration/2020/04/19/951c77fa-818c-11ea-9040-68981f488eed_story.html
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 20, 2020 13:31:26 GMT 10
Yeah, well … when an administration has people on the inside at the World Health Organisation and they are reporting everything back to the administration, but the “fake president” who receives all of the briefings is as dumb-as-dogshit and has an attention span of about eleven seconds, isn't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer and the elevator doesn't quite reach the top floor; do you seriously expect that hollow shell of a stupid emperor with no clothes to have any clues about the stuff he was briefed on?
So the boofhead lashes out at the very organisation where his administration had people inserted in the centre and reporting back on everything because basically he is a dumbfuck.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 20, 2020 16:09:18 GMT 10
Ignore KTJs useless comment Stellar. There's an Amsterdam saying my parents, both Amsterdammers, used to come out with if you were silly enough to say something stupid and useless as a "contribution" to a conversation: "Spuit Elf" which means "spout #11". To explain: the canals of Amsterdam were originally dug by hand centuries ago and they'd have to be drained regularly lest they get foetid and smelly. So they'd pump the water out. Traditionally it would take 10 pumps to drain a canal so that they could get rid of the dead cats or dead people that might be slowly fossilizing in the mud and sludge. They'd pump and pump ... until mud oozed out of a nozzle instead of water. Traditionally that would be the 11th spout ("Spuit") so the shout would be "Spout #11 gives mud!" It became an Amsterdam "thing" and "Spout 11", the one that spews forth mud and sludge instead of water, entered into the lexicon and into the realm of metaphor and imagery. That's KTJ when he decides to turn your cogent and informative post on viruses into a fart in a crowded lift. Oh I always ignore him, Pim. He's irrelevant - just background noise. Totally annoying - spamming every thread he enters. The best thing is to just not bite. Easy peasy. Lol, I love the Amsterdam story. So that's how you kept those canals clean - or at least as clean as could be expected. The analogy definitely suits Kiwi's constant seepage of verbal bilge.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 20, 2020 16:14:07 GMT 10
Viruses are really fascinating pathogens if you're into that sort of thing. What we need to understand is that these viruses (and bacteria) were put on this earth for some reason or other by Mother Nature so we really have to learn to live side by side in harmony with them seeing as they like to hang out in our bodies - especially our mouths and upper respiratory tract. Sure, they can get out of hand and cause some problems every now and then for certain people but Mother Nature gave us the weapons to fight them off if needed. Our fortress is our body - the microbe is nothing ... the terrain is everything. Louis Pasteur finally admitted to this on his deathbed because for most of his life he thought it was the other way around.
Some people will die when they contract the coronavirus - others will just feel slightly off colour and get over it with no problems. What we must be doing is helping people to understand how to fortify their own particular terrain.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 20, 2020 16:22:26 GMT 10
An autarky? See, you learn something every day! I'll have to think about this autarky and get back to you. In the meantime, I do like the hermetically sealed "Fortress Australia"! It definitely ties in with my sustainability ideals.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 17:45:07 GMT 10
An 'autarky' is unrealistic for Australia, international trade has always been part and parcel of the economy, what the virus has shown is the weakness in globalisation where Australia has lost much of its manufacturing base to cheap Labor overseas.
Now China rather than say hey to the world we have a nasty virus on the lose watch out decided to buy up all the the equipment to deal with what they thought to be a localised endemic virus from around the globe...which then left countries like Australia short on PPE and other gear.
With a good manufacturing base there is no reason Australia could not build a hydrogen economy that would open a export market....Australia has the expertise and technology to build many products which have been lost in free trade deals, we buy your beef and we sell you cheap TV's and fridges, we buy your cotton and we sell back cheap T shirts and undies..etc.
Australia doesn't need factories because it can be done cheaper in China or India, kids need not other skills than being a good barista...well you get the drift...bring back manufacturing and then Australia doesn't get caught with its pants down.
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Post by Gort on Apr 20, 2020 17:55:33 GMT 10
Viruses are really fascinating pathogens if you're into that sort of thing. What we need to understand is that these viruses (and bacteria) were put on this earth for some reason or other by Mother Nature so we really have to learn to live side by side in harmony with them seeing as they like to hang out in our bodies - especially our mouths and upper respiratory tract. Sure, they can get out of hand and cause some problems every now and then for certain people but Mother Nature gave us the weapons to fight them off if needed. Our fortress is our body - the microbe is nothing ... the terrain is everything. Louis Pasteur finally admitted to this on his deathbed because for most of his life he thought it was the other way around. Some people will die when they contract the coronavirus - others will just feel slightly off colour and get over it with no problems. What we must be doing is helping people to understand how to fortify their own particular terrain. Some claims that this COVID-19 virus can travel along the olfactory nerve attacking the brain-stem which messes up respiration. Very nasty bug.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 20, 2020 21:39:00 GMT 10
from The Washington Post…Even Trump's best lackey can't defend himThe vice president does what he does best: defend Trump. But even Team Trump has trouble spinning the president's recent actions amid the pandemic.By JAMES DOWNIE | 5:21PM EDT — Sunday, April 19, 2020Vice President Mike Pence in the Brady Briefing Room at the White House on April 13. — Photograph: Mandel Ngan/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images.WHEN Donald Trump chose Mike Pence as his running mate in 2016, the obvious political benefit was that Pence, a former governor and House member who is famously Christian, could boost evangelical and conservative turnout to help Republicans up and down the ballot. But for the egomaniacal Trump, Pence had another key qualification: “He says nice things about me.”
Since being named to the ticket, Pence has repeatedly put his obsequiousness on display: Few on Team Trump are better at deploying up-is-down reasoning to spin news to Trump's benefit. But during the vice president's appearances on NBC's and Fox News's Sunday morning talk shows, it was clear that even Pence could not boot-lick his way out of the lurch the president's actions leave the rest of us in.
On Friday, Trump spoke out in support of protests against stay-at-home orders imposed by Democratic governors in Minnesota, Michigan and Virginia. It's disturbing enough that the president would undermine the fight against the pandemic. Worse was his provocative call on Twitter to “LIBERATE” those states — and, in Virginia's case, “save your great 2nd Amendment” — which caught the attention of far-right extremists. Washington Governor Jay Inslee (Democrat) rightly observed on Friday, “The president is fomenting domestic rebellion and spreading lies — even while his own administration says the virus is real.”
Naturally, hosts on both NBC and Fox asked the vice president to explain the president's comments. After all, as Fox host Chris Wallace pointed out, “they're protesting your own guidelines to stop the spread.” On Fox, Pence focused on bragging about the White House coronavirus task force. When pressed, he assured viewers that “no one in America wants to reopen this country more than President Donald Trump” — a line he repeated on NBC. In both interviews, he then turned to touting guidelines that Trump issued on Thursday for reopening states. Pence omitted that the guidance leaves key decisions up to governors, who Trump has said should call the shots on reopening. Both are in keeping with this president's refusal to take responsibility for the pandemic crisis or a national response.
Stay-at-home orders and other measures across the country are exacting terrible tolls on the economy and Americans' mental health. But they are saving lives. And as Ohio Governor Mike DeWine (Republican) stated bluntly on “Meet the Press” a few minutes after Pence's interview, the only way to reopen is to “do it very, very carefully so we don't get a lot of people killed.” A responsible president would acknowledge the costs of preventing viral spread but stand firm and stress its necessity. As DeWine said, “The only thing that I've asked our protests to do is to observe social distancing. … They were protesting against me yesterday, and that's just fine.” Meanwhile, the president is stoking unrest and undercutting public health measures, at a potentially deadly cost.
The simple truth is that Pence dodged because the president's actions were indefensible. But Pence can't say that, both because the protests are being cheered by Fox News and like-minded outlets and because Pence wants to stay in the good graces of a president who values loyalty to him above all else. So long as conservative media and egomania mean more to the president than Americans' lives, the rest of the country suffers.__________________________________________________________________________ • James Downie is The Washington Post's Digital Opinions Editor. He previously wrote for The New Republic and Foreign Policy magazine. Downie was educated at Columbia University where he earned a B.A. in history. www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/19/even-trumps-best-lackey-cant-defend-him
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2020 23:46:07 GMT 10
It will be interesting to see if there is a spike in cases in the US where the protests took place.
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Post by pim on Apr 21, 2020 0:15:11 GMT 10
Compare the epitaphs for the frontline health workers who put themselves into harm’s way and who die in the performance of their duty (and some do!) out of a sense of high-minded professionalism that goes above and beyond ... with the epitaphs of those people who catch the virus and die because “the economy” can’t handle a period of shutdown.
Of the first group it would be said that they died to keep the community safe. Lest we forget (we probably will). We will remember them (pig’s arse we will, but we should!)
Of the second group it would be said that they died for the economy. Wow! Wouldn’t your family rush to have that engraved on your gravestone? “Died for the economy. Dulce et decorum est pro economia mori” (with apologies to the Roman poet Horace) Personally I’d prefer “I told you I was sick!”
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 21, 2020 7:38:42 GMT 10
Regarding the story about Mike Pence: “Trump's best lackey”? I'd call VP Pence “Trump's best lickspittle” and it would be a considerably more appropriate & accurate description.
Especially considering that if there was any collusion between the WHO and China (which I think is bullshit), doctors and scientists from the Trump administration at the WHO were in it up to their necks too.
All of which points the finger directly at Trump himself, either for knowingly supporting such collusion, or for being a stupid dumbarse with an attention span of eleven seconds.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 21, 2020 9:03:04 GMT 10
It happens all the time. You can lose your sense of smell after catching a cold, the flu or herpes. Pathogens like viruses and bacteria are constantly bombarding the olfactory nerve. Fortunately though, through the use of stem cells, the olfactory nerve can repair itself so the loss of smell is usually only temporary.
But if it does infect that part of the brain stem that serves as the control centre for the heart and the lungs, the damage could contribute to acute respiratory failure of patients with COVID-19.
The only way to find out if that did indeed happen would be through an autopsy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 9:38:21 GMT 10
The upside is the sick planet environmentally is feeling a little better with the beating bass drum of obsessive growth has lost its boom....rare Leatherback Turtles on two Thailand beaches have had an increase in spawning numbers as humans activity before destroyed nest and hatchlings...something not seen in many years.
Deer strolling through London Streets, Wild Boar on the streets Haifa Israel......all because tourist are forced to stay at home...good stuff.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 21, 2020 9:58:06 GMT 10
Agreed Ponto! The planet is recovering. The skies are clear, the streets are uncongested. Almost like it was when I first started to drive at 17. Whilst we in Australia kept our population at a fairly respectable level, the population elsewhere exploded. The West was forced to take in hundreds of millions of clamouring migrants, refugees and illegals from Africa, the ME and Asia.
If we don't solve the problems of over population, Mother Nature will. We will see many more of these pandemics and they will emerge from the usual suspect - China with its 1.5 billion inhabitants all intent on spilling over into the rest of the world and buying it up in the process. Density is the one thing that these viruses love and they certainly find that in the fetid wet markets of China and its teeming cities.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 21, 2020 10:19:19 GMT 10
Density is the one thing that these viruses love and they certainly find that in the fetid wet markets of China and its teeming cities. You conveniently ('cause it doesn't suit your “focused xeonphobic agenda”) forgot to mention the fetid wet markets of Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia and other places in addition to China.
Just thought I'd point that out in the interests of accuracy, instead of “selected” accuracy.
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Post by Stellar on Apr 21, 2020 10:31:51 GMT 10
We'll deal with them when it happens. In the meantime, the problem is China in case you haven't noticed. At present those countries don't have the 1.5 billion inhabitants and the density that makes all the difference.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 21, 2020 11:57:04 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 13:33:39 GMT 10
Less human activity and less earth shaking.....https://www.ecowatch.com/coronavirus-earth-shaking-less-2645628570.html?rebelltitem=2#rebelltitem2
Using your logic Kiwi Jock....China should still keep on releasing pandemics because South Asian countries still have wet markets....I disagree entirely with that notion...China should keep on spawning microscopic bugs and pandemics because its good for the planet to slow down....it may well save the planet from global warming.
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 22, 2020 9:31:46 GMT 10
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Post by kiwithrottlejockey on Apr 22, 2020 9:47:27 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 9:55:27 GMT 10
USA has been a virus on the planet....like Murdoch is a virus for getting idiots into power.
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