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Post by ponto on Nov 10, 2020 20:20:53 GMT 10
Gortbynemos raises the question of Fitzgibombs throwing hand grenades, to be sure that is likely, moving to the backbench while remaining in the media limelight tossin' bombs on Labors policies.
And who are these blue collar workers...??....well payed upper middleclass miners...??
Labor is more affirmative in talking about climate change unlike the Mccarthy Trumpism of the LNP, what isn't all that clear is how Labor gets too zero emissions by 2050 while maintaining digging coal and drilling gas...policies that will basically have to be passed with the Greens help...or simply there is nothing set in concrete though having climate change policies are a step in the right direction.
Cathy while by 2050 we here will be 'dirt napping', a nice elegant phrase btw, I would prefer to be sea napping meself after being delimbed and fed to the sharks as an alternative to Tibetan sky burial, its basically the children's planet that needs rescuing acting here and now is important to them.
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Post by caskur on Nov 10, 2020 20:52:51 GMT 10
But people are not acting fast enough...just show me ONE COUNTRY who is cleanng up the Pacific Ocean's plastic soup problem. And where are they preserving what is left of the remaing natural forests where the remander of the planets fauna lives.
And cleaning up the "renewables" business people are making today. Business people only care about making money right this minute and being sponsered by governments included.
You're so fixated on the spin about renewables you cannot see the long term disaster of their short lifespans.. You don't have the gift of long term vision it appears.
And you won't be here in 2050 for me to point my shaking finger at and scold, "I bloody well told you so you bloody great boof head."
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Post by caskur on Nov 10, 2020 21:04:35 GMT 10
Speaking of Elegant, I spotted a pair of Elegant Parrots in the wild last week... They are uncommon. Their population is secure because people breed them but in the wild they are listed "uncommon"..... On the bit of land that they were on was/is a disused farm they want to turn into a solar farm, to my fucking horror.
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Post by Gort on Nov 10, 2020 21:46:21 GMT 10
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Post by caskur on Nov 10, 2020 22:26:26 GMT 10
I'll check that after SAS.
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Post by caskur on Nov 11, 2020 4:04:14 GMT 10
OMG, that collection is a JOKE... the size of the plastic soup is TWO mainland USA size islands. Two islands of plastic the size of the USA mainland. Your video doesn't crack it I'm afraid.
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Post by ponto on Nov 11, 2020 6:41:35 GMT 10
Renewables are exactly that..easily renewed.
Cathy your all negativity against renewable energy and all you offer in solution to climate change is nuclear...or keep burning the fossils.
Concerns over the pollution of oceans and land yet no concern to the polluting of the skies.
That's not very elegant.
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Post by pim on Nov 11, 2020 7:42:05 GMT 10
Speaking of “elegant”, the very elegant and suave Malcolm Turnbull nailed it on Q&A the other night while very elegantly tearing strips off the pernicious climate change denial role played by the Murdoch Media in “transforming what should be a conversation about physics into a culture war about ideology”. And then, beautifully and elegantly, using a rapier rather than a battleaxe, went for Paul Kelly’s jugular for working for Murdoch and being a part of the problem. It was a masterclass in elegance
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Post by Gort on Nov 11, 2020 9:00:12 GMT 10
Of course, the "elegant" Malcolm Turnbull could have solved all of Australia's ills if only he had become Prime Minister!Oh, wait.
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Post by Gort on Nov 11, 2020 9:03:03 GMT 10
OMG, that collection is a JOKE... the size of the plastic soup is TWO mainland USA size islands. Two islands of plastic the size of the USA mainland. Your video doesn't crack it I'm afraid. Did you read the second link? Upscaling is going to be a very useful development.
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Post by caskur on Nov 11, 2020 16:31:32 GMT 10
Renewables are exactly that..easily renewed. Cathy your all negativity against renewable energy and all you offer in solution to climate change is nuclear...or keep burning the fossils. Concerns over the pollution of oceans and land yet no concern to the polluting of the skies. That's not very elegant. All my "negativity" comes from KNOWING men do NOT have the answers and fuck up everything they touch because men are incredibly manipulative and incredibly stupid. You're the people over pruning the planet... you're the ones cutting down our trees, our carbon sinks and you plan on doing more of it... You all deserve to suffocate. You don't want clean gas, (because you are a dickhead) then the only alternative is nuclear power with all the safety concerns that brings.
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Post by pim on Nov 11, 2020 16:41:46 GMT 10
Jeez Toots do you glow in the dark too?
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Post by caskur on Nov 11, 2020 17:01:31 GMT 10
If they want solar farms, let the government make sure every single roof has hail proof solar panels on them. But they won't because, that is a plan too easy. And keep the bloody oceans clean... Make those Asians who use it as their personal tip pay to clean it up. And stop the west buying plastic bottled drinks and use glass again. What I found 2 days ago... VVVV
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Post by caskur on Nov 11, 2020 17:25:12 GMT 10
I still didn't get my answer but the project appears to start from Canada. And it's only capturing what is ending up in the nets. Who is paying them to do it? That article just tickles the ears of those who read it and think something is actually being done when it isn't. We have the same thing going on at Port Fremantle catching plastic... You could argue something is better than nothing I guess but the work needs to start at the source as well. Make no plastic garbage to start off with and you won't have to deal with it. Did anyone report what happened to the garbage Australia sent to Indonesia and they refused to take it?... because it cannot come back to our shores so they must have dumped it in the ocean. No one did a back-up story on that, did they?
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Post by ponto on Nov 11, 2020 18:38:28 GMT 10
Every country that has nuclear has had disasters...Cas your an old dinosaur plonker
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Post by ponto on Nov 11, 2020 19:04:23 GMT 10
Dreyfus states the obvious ...
The Guardian
'We can either drive change or have it imposed on us': Labor's Mark Dreyfus blasts Joel Fitzgibbon on climate
Katharine Murphy Political editor 3 hrs ago
'We can either drive change or have it imposed on us': Labor's Mark Dreyfus blasts Joel Fitzgibbon on climate change.
Mark Dreyfus has declared the former shadow resources minister Joel Fitzgibbon represents only a “handful of views” in the Labor party and insists Labor cannot opt out of taking action on climate change because “change is coming, and we can either drive the change, or … have it imposed on us”.
Joel Fitzgibbon wearing glasses and a suit and tie: Joel Fitzgibbon says he spoke out because he did not want ‘the cheesecloth brigade in the caucus to argue for an even more ambitious climate policy’.© Photograph: Mike Bowers/The Guardian Joel Fitzgibbon says he spoke out because he did not want ‘the cheesecloth brigade in the caucus to argue for an even more ambitious climate policy’.
The Victorian rightwinger and shadow attorney general blasted his factional colleague on the ABC on Wednesday after Fitzgibbon confirmed on Tuesday he would go to the backbench after a significant blow up in shadow cabinet on Monday night.
Guardian Australia revealed on Tuesday that Fitzgibbon and the Labor leader, Anthony Albanese, clashed on Monday night – the culmination of a long-running internal dispute about climate policy.
Albanese at the shadow cabinet meeting rebuked Fitzgibbon without naming him for cutting across Labor’s attempts to use Joe Biden’s victory in the US as an opportunity to pressure the Morrison government on its climate change record – a criticism prompting a curt response from Fitzgibbon.
Related: Anthony Albanese sidesteps questions about a Labor medium-term emissions target
Albanese and Fitzgibbon continued to argue, and Dreyfus, who has clashed with Fitzgibbon before for arguing that Labor should lower ambition in its climate policies, also interjected during the shadow cabinet battle on Monday night, branding Fitzgibbon’s behaviour a “disgrace”.
On Wednesday, Fitzgibbon was entirely unrepentant, doing another round of media interviews acknowledging the “dust up” with Albanese on Monday night, but insisting he was not asked to go to the backbench.
Fitzgibbon told the ABC he had intervened publicly after the Biden victory as an internal corrective because he did not want “the cheesecloth brigade in the caucus to argue for an even more ambitious climate policy” because of Donald Trump’s defeat.
Fitzgibbon said Labor needed to come to grips with its electoral record on climate change. “We keep overreaching and losing elections,” he said.
Video: Albanese appoints Ed Husic as Fitzgibbon replacement in shadow cabinet (Sky News Australia)
He said if Labor didn’t moderate its climate policy, Scott Morrison would win another federal contest and have another three years to underperform on emissions reduction.
But in an ABC radio interview in Melbourne, Dreyfus said: “I don’t think there’s a choice here. We don’t get to say no to climate change. We don’t get to say no to the effects of climate change and we don’t get to opt out of taking action.
“Joel likes to talk about overreach. It’s not overreach to take strong action on climate. Change is coming, we can either drive the change, or we can have it imposed on us.”
Dreyfus said he believed there was a growing realisation in the community about the need for action and “Joel Fitzgibbon has ceased to be a member of the shadow cabinet and is no longer a frontbencher of the Australian Labor party – he does not represent more than a handful of views”.
Fitzgibbon’s departure from the frontbench has prompted renewed speculation about Albanese’s grip on the Labor leadership. Fitzgibbon, who has maintained a long friendship with the current leader, says he believes Albanese will lead the opposition into the next federal election.
Related: Joel Fitzgibbon quits shadow cabinet after dispute over Labor's climate policy
But departures from the cabinet or shadow cabinet are often harbingers of escalating strife, and Fitzgibbon has not ruled out a tilt if he were to be drafted by colleagues.
Fitzgibbon’s arguments about winding back ambition in climate policy aren’t friendless in the caucus, but they do not command majority support.
But some senior figures remain on the fence about whether Albanese is cutting through as a prime ministerial alternative to Scott Morrison.
The focal point of the internal dispute about climate policy is the ambition attached to any medium-term emissions reduction target Labor adopts during this parliamentary term.
While Labor agreed to adopt a net zero target by 2050 in one of its first major policies after the 2019 election loss, Fitzgibbon and the shadow climate change minister, Mark Butler, have been at odds for months on a new target for the 2030s.
Albanese in June gave a clear commitment to unveiling a medium-term emissions reduction target consistent with climate change science before the next election. But more recently, the Labor leader has flagged a “process of going up to net zero emissions by 2050”.
On Wednesday he was asked several times during a press conference whether Labor would adopt a medium-term target. Albanese sidestepped the specifics of the question, saying only there would be a “complete announcement” before the next election.
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Post by Gort on Nov 12, 2020 10:08:14 GMT 10
Meanwhile, back at the Labor Civil War ... Union roasting for Labor: you are out of stepGREG BROWN JOURNALIST NOVEMBER 12, 2020 Labor MP Mark Dreyfus. Picture: Sean Davey Divisions within Labor on climate change have deepened after two leading union officials and a former president of the ACTU condemned frontbencher Mark Dreyfus for describing Joel Fitzgibbon as being “out of step’’ with regional Australians on environmental policy.
CFMEU Queensland mining and energy president Stephen Smyth and CFMEU NSW northern mining and energy president Peter Jordan also warned that Anthony Albanese’s team had not done enough to win back blue-collar workers who deserted the party at the last election.Mr Dreyfus lashed out at Mr Fitzgibbon’s push for a moderate climate change policy after the Hunter MP quit his frontbench position on Tuesday. “Joel is out of step not only with the Labor Party, but he’s out of step with thinking across Australia: in the regions, the cities, the unions,” Mr Dreyfus told the ABC. Joel Fitzgibbon the day after he stepped down from Labor's front bench. Picture: NCA NewsWire/Gary Ramage Former ACTU president Jennie George Former ACTU president and Labor MP Jennie George said the only people “out of step” were Labor MPs who “fail to take note of the results of the last election”. “The ALP’s climate policies did not gain widespread support in the electorate. Labor’s primary vote has not increased since then,” Ms George wrote in a letter to The Australian. “The fact that Joel almost (lost) his seat last time around should be a matter of great concern. This is Labor’s heartland. “Trying to justify policy on the basis of Biden’s win and the Queensland COVID election results is nonsense.” Ms George wrote that Labor needed to ensure all of its policies were “properly costed and the employment impacts quantified”. “Uncosted policies with feel-good targets is virtue signalling at its worst,” she said.Mr Jordan expressed dismay that Mr Dreyfus and opposition energy spokesman Mark Butler did not appreciate that Mr Fitzgibbon had the right approach to win back regional communities. “Labor just don’t get it. Make no mistake about it, they have lost their traditional base,” Mr Jordan said. “Joel was doing nothing more than trying to get them back in touch with it. Unfortunately, people like Butler and Dreyfus don’t get that.”Mr Smyth said, while Queensland Labor won over workers at the last election, the federal party was yet to win back workers in the mining and energy division. “There is still some hangover from the last federal election in these mining seats,” Mr Smyth said. “Federally, there is still a lot of work to be done and I am certainly disappointed to see Joel go.” However, Australian Manufacturing Workers Union state secretary Steve Murphy said there were “thousands of workers who have been damaged by (Mr Fitzgibbon’s) lack of (climate change) ambition and honesty.” Mr Fitzgibbon raised eyebrows on Tuesday when he said he regretted not running for leader after the 2019 election and that he would consider a tilt at the top job if he was drafted. While few believe Mr Fitzgibbon could muster the numbers to get the leadership himself, some believe he could act as a stalking horse for another Right faction candidate. Labor senator Alex Gallacher, from the Right faction, said Mr Fitzgibbon was “certainly heading in the right direction” to become a successful Labor leader. “There isn’t a vote tomorrow, but clearly there is a division. Unless Albo can bring the tent back together who knows what will happen,” Senator Gallacher said. “We have got to win. There is no such thing as waiting for a turn. We need to win with policies that resonate and matter with our working base, and 33 or 34 per cent does not cut it. We need to get away from the trendy, well-educated inner-city liberal climate change view and get back to working Australia.” Labor Left MPs ridiculed the prospect of Mr Fitzgibbon becoming leader and said no more than a quarter of MPs subscribed to his views. “He will become the George Christensen of the Labor Party,” one said. www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/union-roasting-for-labor-you-are-out-of-step/news-story/7527bd5df7992f0c0f0c70efe239a6e1
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Post by caskur on Nov 12, 2020 10:13:49 GMT 10
Modern Labor is clueless...
Rudd wouldn't have got back in bar for Gillard reminding everyone about work choices at the last minute... It was the thought work choices might be an option again that lost Libs the elections - at the time.
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Post by ponto on Nov 12, 2020 10:56:33 GMT 10
The mining Union is not the be end and all of Labor...nor is mining a major employer. Dreyfus is correct when he says the fossil industry is a dying industry and here is no future in telling workers they have a job for life when the reality is they don't. Modern Labor's traditional vote comes from the better educated and more sophisticated worker....LNP attracts the unsophisticated worker who watches sky news. Twiggy Forest is going green hydrogen energy....this is the future, business is heading this way. www.smh.com.au/business/companies/fortescue-to-expand-into-renewables-with-green-energy-arm-20201111-p56dnx.html
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Post by Gort on Nov 12, 2020 11:06:34 GMT 10
Good ol' Twiggy.
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Post by Gort on Nov 12, 2020 11:09:38 GMT 10
Of course, the real issue for Labor is Albo's dismal showing as Preferred PM. He missed his chance back when Shorty won the leadership. Had he been elected leader back then, there would be a Labor Government right now. Shorty really screwed over Labor, they could be out of office for a generation because of him.
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Post by Gort on Nov 12, 2020 18:39:48 GMT 10
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Post by ponto on Nov 12, 2020 20:22:20 GMT 10
Labor self destructed when they destroyed Rudd who had the public believing in his vision for Australia, including traditional conservative punters.
Hawke had vison with charisma and very popular, Keating not so popular was able to convince the public he had vision....vision fort the future is important....because of self interested arty members like Fitzgibbon such as it is the people see Labor as having no clear vison.
ScoMo is marketing his vison, steady at the helm and love Australia so will do the best for Australia...which is just marketing he is doing what is best for fossil biz, which Twiggy is showing isn't a vison for the future in a changing world....I have long argued hydrogen is the future and now seeing that vison come to fruition, Twiggy is the beginning, green hydrogen and not fossil hydrogen derived from the coal industry.
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Post by Gort on Nov 13, 2020 9:58:29 GMT 10
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Post by Gort on Nov 17, 2020 11:29:09 GMT 10
This political commentator* seems to have come to the realisation that Albo is doomed. The names suggested as replacement Labor leader tells a sad story. What a bunch of no-hopers. Where will the the next good Labor leader come from? Punching below his weight, Albanese is on the ropes as Plibersek heads the list of leadership favouritesTROY BRAMSTON 11:00PM NOVEMBER 16, 2020 Leader of the Opposition Anthony Albanese during Question Time in the House of Representatives at Parliament House Canberra. Picture: Sean Davey. Anthony Albanese’s leadership is on death watch. Dissatisfaction with his performance runs deep within the Labor caucus, shadow ministry, party machine and union movement. Most Labor MPs think Albanese will either be dumped before the next election or will not lead the party to victory if he manages to survive.
Labor has become a zombie party steered by a lifeless leader. The mood is exceedingly bleak. Labor has not learnt the lessons of its recent defeats. There has been little renovation of policies or rejuvenation of the party organisation. Labor rarely lands a glove on the Coalition. Polls show Labor stuck on one-third of the vote. Labor’s deepest fear is actually losing seats at the next election.Joel Fitzgibbon’s resignation from the front bench is a worrying sign for Albanese. Fitzgibbon was instrumental in Albanese becoming leader but now believes he is on track to lose the next election. Many MPs do not like Fitzgibbon’s methods but few disagree with his critique about failing to adequately balance action on climate change with a viable energy policy that does not alienate traditional Labor voters. But this is about more than climate change. Eyes glaze over during Albanese’s speeches. His question time tactics, and his broader political strategy, are cringe-worthy. There have been brawls in the shadow cabinet and staff infighting. Albanese is often cranky with colleagues and cannot accept criticism. Party members yearn for an inspiring and charismatic leader, and grow frustrated with Albanese’s inability to capitalise on what they see as Scott Morrison’s failings.When Albanese said recently that Morrison should be “contacting” Donald Trump to tell him to respect “democratic processes” and accept his defeat by Joe Biden, Labor MPs responded with incredulity. This was stupidity on steroids. Illustration: Tom Jellett It is no wonder the cohort of next Labor leaders is readying for battle. The leadership favourite is Tanya Plibersek from the NSW left faction. Next is opposition Treasury spokesman Jim Chalmers from the Queensland right. Chris Bowen, from the NSW right, has not given up on becoming leader. Plibersek and Chalmers were close to running for leader after the last election, and Bowen briefly did. There are also others tilling the soil of a potential leadership bid, whenever the chance arises. Deputy leader Richard Marles and Tony Burke, from the Victorian and NSW right factions respectively, are potential starters. Terri Butler from the Queensland left is also being mentioned by MPs. Bill Shorten, the wildcard, has not given up on his ambitions but has told colleagues he will sit out the next contest. Leader of the Opposition Anthony Albanese arrives at Question. Picture: Sean Davey. Nobody wants to challenge Albanese. There is little appetite for toppling a leader and the victor having blood on their hands. But if Albanese continues to perform poorly, and the public critiques continue, and MPs start to panic that they could lose their seats, anything could happen. Fitzgibbon could initiate a challenge and open it up for others to run for leader.Labor’s leaders are now chosen by caucus and party members voting in equal proportion. The incumbent cannot be challenged in opposition without the support of 60 per cent of caucus. But there are two critical factors here that are seldom recognised. First, the caucus is master of its own destiny and could change these rules with a simple majority vote. Second, the 60 per cent protection threshold is not enshrined in the party’s national constitution. If the leadership issue comes to a head before the election, it is likely the caucus will determine it. This process favours Chalmers or Bowen as the right faction has a majority in caucus. But the right is divided on the leadership which could see Plibersek emerge with enough caucus votes to become leader, perhaps with Chalmers as deputy to provide a NSW-Queensland balanced ticket. If the leadership is decided by a joint caucus-membership ballot, likely post-election with Albanese vanquished, Plibersek starts as the clear and distant favourite. There is no doubt about this. Chalmers and Bowen, and the rest, might think they can persuade enough members and MPs but this is doubtful. They could surprise in a multi-candidate contest. But Plibersek has wide appeal among the party’s members. The lack of any standout leader waiting in the wings favours Albanese’s survival. But make no mistake: the contenders are either talking to colleagues or preparing to run for the leadership. They are reinventing themselves with new books and podcasts, thoughtful speeches and media interviews, and building new alliances. None of them wants to be caught unprepared like after the last election.Albanese was never up to the job of being leader. Labor expected to win the last election and was shell-shocked when it did not. None of those regarded as future leaders was ready to run. Albanese, who had subtly undermined Shorten for years, was ready to strike. He was unopposed. But, apart from Mark Latham, no leader has been so ill-prepared or has performed so badly. Labor once took leadership seriously. Shorten, for all his faults, was seen as a future PM for more than a decade. Kim Beazley, Simon Crean, Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard all had varying degrees of leadership credibility and capacity. So did Bill Hayden and the trio of Labor greats: Paul Keating, Bob Hawke and Gough Whitlam. Albanese does not have the “it” factor and never had it. It is why all the talk in Labor is not about winning the next election but about losing. The party — rank-and-file members, MPs, shadow ministers, union leaders and party officials — are all ruminating about who will take the leadership reins next. Unless by some miracle Albanese can turn his flagging fortunes around, we will know who Labor’s 22nd leader is soon enough.www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/punching-below-his-weight-albanese-is-on-the-ropes-as-plibersek-heads-the-list-of-leadership-favourites/news-story/b4368f4013d61b209aa7c9fd4170c5dc*TROY BRAMSTON is an award-winning and best-selling author or editor of 10 books, including Robert Menzies: The Art of Politics and Paul Keating: The Big-Picture Leader. He co-authored The Truth of the Palace Letters and The Dismissal with Paul Kelly. He is currently writing a biography of Bob Hawke.
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