I Am A Jew (an interesting read)

[jody]

and has a lot of truths.


The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees... I don't feel threatened.. I don't feel discriminated against.. That's what they are, Christmas trees.

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country . I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about.. And we said okay..

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Are you laughing yet?

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit.

If not, then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,

Ben Stein

[matt]

Very true, and I accept his opinion.

My issue with Christmas is internal to Christianity, and whether WE should be celebrating a pagan holiday. That is of no interest to Ben Stein, because unfortunately, he does not follow Jesus.

[jody]

is that all you got out of that??

[matt]

Jan 13, 2013 23:44:44 GMT 10 jody said:

is that all you got out of that??

What I got was that Ben Stein is a respectful person, and someone who follows Judaism.

A lot of people have a misconception about Judaism, that being Jews consider themselves supreme, because they were (and I use the term "were" purposefully) the chosen people.

Jews were not chosen to be above people, and were not chosen because they're loved more by God. Jews were simply chosen by God as the people to accept the Torah. That is it, that is all Jews were chosen for.

A lot of Jews (who have never read one piece of scripture) have a belief they're above everyone else, which is wrong.

Ben Stein therefore comes across as someone who is humble, and has an understanding of who he is, and is therefore not offended by the people of other nations (goyim).

Richo is someone who is not sure of himself, he is Jewish by birth, but beyond that I believe he has a hard time fully understanding what it means to him.

I am a proud Jew (even though my parents and brothers disagree), but I have chosen to accept Jesus (who was also a Jew) as part of my being, as part of my spirituality. There are many of us around, and Richo should go visit his local Jews 4 Jesus bookstore: www.jewsforjesus.org.au/



:-)

[jody]

Matt I respect him as a Jew too but what he has said is SO much more than just being a jew.

[matt]

It is what I got from it. He is a Jew who believes in getting along with everyone.

I have a different outlook, I believe we should all get along, but that ultimately my obligation to God is to declare the truth. That is how I show my love.

Ben shows his love by accepting all things, even evil things like Hajj and Eid, which will see those people headed to hell. I don't see that as loving.

[pim]

Jody don't push it with Matt. I understand the dismay and astonishment inherent in your is that all you got out of that??. The sad truth is that Matt is so narrowly focussed and wrapped up in his bigotries that that's all he's capable of getting out of it.

For myself, I don't agree with where Stein is coming from. When he says "I don't like being pushed around for being a Jew" I can only answer "Fair enough! Nobody likes being pushed around. Freedom of religion is a noble principle and I support it". Mind you I'm not aware that anyone in the US is being "pushed around" for being a Jew, so what is this "victim" stuff that he's coming out with here? Then what he does is to make a quantam leap in his victimology. From pretending to be a Jewish "victim" of religious discrimination (which is bullshit) he leaps to some sort of whinge that America has become an atheist country which pushes all religious people around. Now that's a straight out lie.

The plop plop of bullshit and propaganda in your c & p piece is getting louder. It gets even louder with this part:

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

I'll gloss over Madeleine O'Hare because I don't know who she is - or was. But what I do get is that this is about "prayer in schools" which seems to be a cause célèbre among the American Bible Belt. It isn't an issue in Australia because we don't have prayer in government schools in this country, and what's more we've never had prayer in government schools in this country. And if the god botherers in this country agitated to introduce prayer in government schools in Australia I'd be out there on the barricades agitating against it. The argument against prayer in public schools is that public education should be free, compulsory and secular. "No prayer in schools" goes to the "secular" part of public education. This has been a central principle of public education in Australia ever since Henry Parkes promoted the idea of free, compulsory and secular public education in Australia back in the 1870s. And Henry Parkes is a respected figure in Australian history. So respected we call him the "Father of Federation" and have named the part of Canberra where Parliament House is located after him. We should also call Parkes the "Father of Australian Public Education" too. He was totally against any idea of prayer in public schools and he was right.

The part about Spock is ill-informed misleading codswallop. I suggest you seek a better authority on Spock than this Stein guy. The religious Right in the Unied States have demonised Spock and, in their fevered conspiracy theory-obsessed imaginations, find it too convenient to focus their blame game on people like Spock rather than do a more nuanced analysis of modern capitalist society.

I won't go on jody. He talks about the ills of society and appears to be making some sort of argument. But when the basic premises of an argument are shown to be bullshit, it usually follows that the argument itself is bullshit.

So I guess I don't share Mr Stein's angst and reject his argument.

[jody]

Pim, I tend to agree with a few things he said. I went to a public school and we did have prayer...it was called Scripture and we had Scripture once a week. Most kids I knew enjoyed it.
God is not allowed in schools and look at what has happened since he was taken out of schools.....but anyway, some can see this, some can't....it depends on your values.
I know many people who won't admit to their Christians beliefs because they are ridiculed for it.
While Buzz is the extreme, he does represent a very negative and nasty part of society who berates people for their faith. It is a screwed up world Pim.....when we take what is good and moral out of the lives of children we can't expect them to grow up without serious issues.

[pim]

Jody I remember Scripture classes. I went to a government high school back in the 1960s and we had a "Scripture" period once a week in which Father O'Dwyer would take the Catholic kids for "Scripture". I can still hear his Irish brogue as he'd begin his Scripture class with the "question", which was really more of a challenge than a question: "Who went to Mass last Sunday?".

The thing about Scripture, Jody, is twofold:

1. Scripture was never compulsory. Under the law as it stood back then, if a parent sent a note to the school indicating that she didn't want her Johnny to attend Scripture classes then "Johnny" was not required to attend and alternative arrangements would be made which invariably meant that there would be a "non-Scripture" class where kids not attendiong Scripture would be put into a classroom under supervision by a teacher and they could do their homework.

2. When Henry Parkes' agitation for public education that was "free, compulsory and secular" resulted in a Public Instruction Act being passed in every State Parliament back in 1870, you have to remember that this happened in the teeth of frenzied resistance by the Churches - especially the Catholic Church led by Cardinal Moran, a formidable Catholic figure in Colonial Australia. If you visit St Mary's Cathedral in Sydney you'll see a large statue of Cardinal Moran at the cathedral entrance. It was Moran who set up the Catholic school system in response to Parkes' public education system (Parkes was Premier of NSW in the couple of decades before Federation). The Churches did wring one concession out of the Public Instruction Act and that was the right of a minister of religion to visit his local government school once a week to minister to the children of his parishioners. That's the legal basis of Scripture classes. So they got an hour a week, and if any parent didn't want their kid to participate they only had to send in a note and the kid would be taken out of Scripture classes.

I don't remember getting much out of Scripture. My homelife was pretty intensely Catholic so as far as I was concerned all the religious stuff happened at home. But at school, in Scripture classes, that's when you got a chance to do your homework so you didn't have to do it at home.

[jody]

Yes Scripture wasn't compulsory but from memory the vast majority of kids in my year did do it. We had different classes for different denominations. My scripture book was always my favourite and I wasn't brought up in a religious family either.....my parents have never gone to church for anything other than weddings, christenings and funerals.
Maybe this is why my faith is so easy going. While God is something my parents do believe in, they don't have "religion" so to speak....I had God put in my life in a non forceful way and was allowed to find my faith on my own.

[matt]

My child will not do 'scripture', and he will deliberately be sent to an independent, secular school. I believe ethics should be taught at school - not religion.

Religion is for the home, not school.

[Deleted]

Jan 13, 2013 23:33:14 GMT 10 jody said:

and has a lot of truths.


The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:

I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish.

Mazeltov, you want a Medal ?

And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees... I don't feel threatened.. I don't feel discriminated against.. That's what they are, Christmas trees.[/quote and who said it should bother you ?

It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto.

Who is saying that they are

In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.

Who is saying that you should be

I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians.

They are not, and you are not, so whats your beef ?

I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country . I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.

The Constitution forbids the establishment of religion, I guess you slept through that class

Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.

Ahh, the ideal of Celebrity worship came from advertisers, don't like it, don't watch commercial media, now how hard can that be ?

In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

and this has got to do with religion in what way ?

In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

That's the responsibility of parents, not schools. You're trying to walk both sides of the street.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about.. And we said okay..

You shouldn't bash children, that's a no-brainer

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

again, those a values that are taught at home, teachers have a hard enough job as it is, than to be your children's nanny

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'

No, it comes from people like yourself trying to abrogate the role of parents in favor of their teachers

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.

Now you're speaking rubbish

Are you laughing yet?

Only at your self-serving sanctimonious clap-trap

Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.

Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Pass it on if you think it has merit.

No, because it's not my place to push your narrow set of values onto my friends and aquaintences

If not, then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.

So, when was the last time you pushed for gun control, pal ?
You're not a hypocrite are you ?

[jody]

lol....who are you talking to, Richo?

[Deleted]

Tevye, now theres a Yid that I can relate to

[fat]

Matt - I am not sure how much bible advice you consider to be worthwhile but I beg you to consider the first letter of Peter chapter 3, verses 8 to 16 - all of it is good, but in this case look closely at verses 15 and 16.

1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

I seems to me that gentleness, respect and a clear conscience would be be a good place to start and continue toward building a worthwhile life as a Christian in community.

[caskur]

this was the correct message here...


"Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.

Read more: newstalkback1.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=religion&action=display&thread=951#ixzz2IasFwSmv

[matt]