The Riddle of the Gun

[pim]

I read it. I acknowledge that it's reasonable. So why do I have no desire to rush out and buy a firearm? And why would I prefer to think that in this development of about 20 townhouses where I live, with its sliding gate that slides open and close at the click of a remote control, and comfortable and pleasant leafy gardens, that none of my neighbours has a firearm in their property? To be honest if it's about personal safety from "evildoers" and bad guys, I feel a lot more secure living in a middle income body corporate where you know your neighbours well enough to say "hi" when you encounter them, and to engage in pleasant small talk, and where, if you noticed someone acting suspiciously around your neighbour's property when you knew the neighbour is away, you'd call the police and/or alert other neighbours. I would not feel more secure - in fact quite the opposite - if I lived in an armed camp.

But these considerations aren't issues in Australia - except with certain members on NTB.

[Deleted]

No one needs a gun in a suburban environment.
Only a complete moron would think to justify urban firearms ownership.

[jody]

The armed forces are the only ones who need guns.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2013 12:27:59 GMT 10 jody said:

The armed forces are the only ones who need guns.

London bobbies don't carry firearms. They also have less gun related crime. If they can do it there, we can do it here.

[jody]

Agree with that......I should have been more literal HG.....I was thinking more the army, navy and AF.

[Deleted]

It's a culture that feeds into itself. Police carry guns, so criminals acquire guns, and so it goes..

[Deleted]

And why would I prefer to think that in this development of about 20 townhouses where I live, with its sliding gate that slides open and close at the click of a remote control, and comfortable and pleasant leafy gardens, that none of my neighbours has a firearm in their property? To be honest if it's about personal safety from "evildoers" and bad guys, I feel a lot more secure living in a middle income body corporate where you know your neighbours well enough to say "hi" when you encounter them, and to engage in pleasant small talk, and where, if you noticed someone acting suspiciously around your neighbour's property when you knew the neighbour is away, you'd call the police and/or alert other neighbours. I would not feel more secure - in fact quite the opposite - if I lived in an armed camp.

Ha ha ... and you accuse me of "white flight" because I dare to live in middle to high income Manly!

[Deleted]

Bet there aren't any mussos in that gated community either.

[Deleted]

I have a R.D.O today, so to escape the heat, I'm watching a bit of day time telly. There is this cheesy cop show on '7 Mate'; "One-Adam-12", or some such. This show follows around a couple of 'uniforms', as they go about the daily policing on their beat. So, what takes up most of the time for this pair of dedicated Jacks ?

Yep, you guessed it Guns. Petty,crims committing petty crimes with a common denominator of guns. Concealed Pistols, full on assault rifles, you name it. If our TV's weren't so full of the damn things, then maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have so many crimes involving fire arms, and so many morons walking around, desperately, trying to justify their need to own them.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2013 12:54:59 GMT 10 Stellar said:

]

Ha ha ... and you accuse me of "white flight" because I dare to live in middle to high income Manly!

Errr, Pim has stated that he lives in an apartment complex.
That can be equated to 'white flight' or makes Pim a hypocrite (which you clearly imply) in what way ?

[Deleted]

Errr, Pim has stated that he lives in an apartment complex.

Errr, he did no such thing! He stated that he lived in a gated community of townhouses. Do you know the difference between an apartment and a townhouse.

And what's with this "errr" obsession you have for starting every sentence when you want to contradict someone??

That can be equated to 'white flight' or makes Pim a hypocrite (which you clearly imply) in what way ?

1. Gated communities are usually a lot more expensive.

2. You don't usually find the hoi polloi living in gated communities.

3. I live in a townhouse complex but it isn't gated. What is Pim hiding from? The riffraff of society? We have a lot of riffraff around here but they come in as daytrippers from the west and south west suburbs. The ferries are full of them. But we don't hide from them.

[pim]

Jan 4, 2013 12:55:49 GMT 10 Stellar said:

Bet there aren't any mussos in that gated community either.

Not so sure of that!! Mind you I haven't gone around all 20 residences asking what their religion is! It's an inner suburb not far from Unley, close to Fullarton Road. The neighbourhood is far from uniformly Anglo and there are a couple of young families of Asian-Muslim appearance - going on the headgear that the wives wear.

I think a "white flight" suburb is probably very pleasant - if you're white and in flight.

Dunno how well you know Adelaide, Stellar. No criticism intended if you don't know it very well. People often ask me, when they find out I'm a NSW "expat" who retired to Adelaide "why Adelaide?" It's usually only Adelaideans who ask that question. There's always a certain cultural "cringe" inherent in the question and I wish they'd get over it. What's behind the question is "why come to a boring place like Adelaide?" And these are Adelaideans!!

My answer is usually a pat one about the climate. I love the climate here. I can say that even in a heat wave like we've got today. Having lived through 30+ Canberra winters I find Adelaide winters to be a piece of cake. My winter gear from Canberra days hangs unused in the wardrobe and I find that my doona, which is still my old Canberra doona, is too hot in the Adelaide winter nights. Adelaide winters are also short - 2 months max - compared with what I was used to. The summer heat waves are usually over by March and when you subtract 2 months of searing heat, and 2 months of mild winter cold, what you have left is 8 months of the best climate I've ever experienced anywhere in the world.

I also enjoy arthouse movies, classical music concerts like Musica Viva, live theatre, and opera. I've seen my fair share of grand opera at the Sydney Opera House and the productions put on by SA Opera at the Festival Theatre are the equal in quality. In fact if you like Wagner then the best place to enjoy a Wagner opera is Adelaide. TYhe icing on the cake is that all these things are much more accessible here than in Sydney or Melbourne. The town is big enough to be interesting, and yet not so big that it overwhelms you with its stress and traffic. Plus the food & wine here are excellent and there's enough colonial architecture that hasn't been knocked down for it to be an architectural gem. In many ways it's Australia's art deco city.

So if that's "boring" then who needs "interesting"?

It's also a lot more multicultural than I expected. If you want "multicultural" then go to the Gouger St Markets. But the town is a lot more "Anglo" than Sydney or Melbourne. Nevertheless go to any suburban supermarket and you'll see plenty of diversity - or any suburban street. I've done my share of ESL teaching to migrants here, and you wonder where they all come from. I think if I were into "white flight" I've chosen the wrong line of work!!

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2013 13:29:36 GMT 10 Stellar said:

Errr, Pim has stated that he lives in an apartment complex.

Errr, he did no such thing! He stated that he lived in a gated community of townhouses. Do you know the difference between an apartment and a townhouse.

So, it's a Townhouse complex.
Just because it has a gate, doesn't make it `gated`,you twit.

And what's with this "errr" obsession you have for starting every sentence when you want to contradict someone??

What is with your obsessive and pathological hatred of Muslims?
Paranoid, much

That can be equated to 'white flight' or makes Pim a hypocrite (which you clearly imply) in what way ?



1. Gated communities are usually a lot more expensive.
[\quote]
There are a hell of lot of body corps that have gates,at all prices.


[quote
2. You don't usually find the hoi polloi living in gated communities.

Really?
"Hoi Polloi" exist in all shapes and all classes, You for instance.

3. I live in a townhouse complex but it isn't gated. What is Pim hiding from? The riffraff of society? We have a lot of riffraff around here but they come in as daytrippers from the west and south west suburbs. The ferries are full of them. But we don't hide from them.

So, it has a gate?
That you equate that as hiding only reflects your own paranoia

[Deleted]

Oh, and yeah Stellar, the chances are that there are Muslims where Pim lives, as there would where you live You

[garfield]

You can normally tell by all the empty fertilizer packets lying around.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2013 12:54:59 GMT 10 Stellar said:

Ha ha ... and you accuse me of "white flight" because I dare to live in middle to high income Manly!

I used to live in Manly in 1974.

The place was full of hippies, druggies, crims, whores and all sorts of undesirables back then.

Those of us who were actually working for a living instead of bumbing around on the beaches or hanging out at the boozer all day stood out as being different.

[pim]

You do see the odd bag of sheep's poo, or chook's poo for people's gardens. Potting mix is de rigueur. I guess there might be a bit of chemical fertiliser around too.

But no guns ...

I hadn't realised that my place of residence would become such a controversial issue!! The neighbourhood is changing. All those lovely old Adelaide stone houses with the high pitched roofs and big shady verandahs are slowly going as they get knocked down and the developers move in to put up townhouses. I can see the point. The blocks in the older Adelaide suburbs are very big and if you can knock down the existing structure and put up a dozen townhouses you'll make a financial killing. Dunno what was here before these townhouses. Probably a couple of nice old houses. It's a case of "there goes the neighbourhood!" and I have to acknowledge that if I represent any sociological pattern it isn't a nice leafy suburban idyll where white folks in flight from demographic and social change will flee to, rather I represent the demographic and social change where the nice comfy big old suburban houses on their big blocks behind their picket fences give way to medium density townhouses with a more transient and floating population. Hardly "white flight"!!

As for the "gate", it was there already and I'm quite OK with that. There used to be a mature deciduous tree in the middle of what is now the driveway into the complex. The local (Unley) council chopped it down and took out the roots - and then left a hole in the ground! You have to remember that hole is there and drive around it. The strata committee is in dispute with the council about who is responsible for filling in that hole. So far it's a standoff and we are left with a big unsightly hole in the driveway. Not good for property values, you know!! Not to mention safety! Much more dangerous than having a couple of Muslim neighbours!

And still there are no guns!!

I think if it was a neighbourhood of paranoid maniacs armed to the teeth with their assault rifles and RPGs or whatever the hell these rootin'-tootin' shoot first & ask questions later American rednecks seem to want to have, I'd be wanting to move out fast!!

[Deleted]

Those people that want to own a guns are the exact people who shouldn't be allowed to own a gun...simple as that.

America is idolised by the RW conservatives for it's laissez faire free marketeer ideologue that makes that nation inherently a unstable place to live, considering the US has the highest number people incarcerated in prisons is proof enough of what sort of lunatic democracy the place is, yet the conservatives are keen as mustard to take Australia down the same path economically and ideologically.

Consider also the O'Farrell govt of NSW has allowed shooters into National Parks with little regulation Buzzo makes a valid point that Australia could indeed become a gun happy nation under far right conservatism.

The obvious answer is to not vote for conservative politicians or parties, so that Australia can maintain its European democratic socialist heritage such as what can be found in Norse countries, which should be our nations to admire, certainly not the US, or Australia would just be another septic tank yank nation of high prison rates and dumb down people where the gap between the rich and poor is such that the elite own the wealth, and the power.

Such as it is in the US, where the rich elite have enough political power to avoid paying taxes that will keep the nation out of a recession and what Obama is having difficulty with the US congress....the rich who gained hugely before the GFC they created and now the poor have to suffer the most cut backs in services and welfare because of the greedy actions of the elite upper class that owns all the wealth of the nation.

That unfair division is social class that creates more crime and more people incarcerated is not something Australia should aspire to, nor is it the founding leaders vision of Australia and egalitarian society of equality and a fair go for all citizens.

[bender]

London police like NZ Police are unarmed, except in cases where their tasking requires them to be armed, which these days in the old Dart is for things such as patrolling areas that contain high value targets (like buses trains and planes). That aside, I do believe that not carrying a gun really does wonders for a police officers ability to deal pleasantly with the public. I'm always astounded at how cheerful and helpful kiwi cops are and I believe you can put it down in large part to not carrying a gun around all day.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2013 16:54:31 GMT 10 bender said:

London police like NZ Police are unarmed, except in cases where their tasking requires them to be armed, which these days in the old Dart is for things such as patrolling areas that contain high value targets (like buses trains and planes). That aside, I do believe that not carrying a gun really does wonders for a police officers ability to deal pleasantly with the public. I'm always astounded at how cheerful and helpful kiwi cops are and I believe you can put it down in large part to not carrying a gun around all day.

All NZ Police Cars on general duties (although not traffic duties) have a locked armoury in the boot containing a Bushmaster rifle and a couple of Glock pistols.

[garfield]

Is that in case they come across you while you're having one of your psychotic episodes.

[Lord Stockton]

rre#3

"No one needs a gun in a suburban environment.
Only a complete moron would think to justify urban firearms ownership"

No firearms for the police?
No guns for security guards (eg armagard or Brinks)?
No guns for vets who go into the country ?
No guns for sporting pistol clubs? Like the one located in Old Noarlunga -south of Adelaide & now in close proximity to suburbia. Should their activies now be banned & if so why?
Then what about cross bow clubs like the one in Claredon (another outer suburb these days of Adelaide)? Or are cross bows not as deadly as guns at 10 or 20 mtrs?
No school cadet units where kids actually get the chance to learn how to PROPERLY handle all forms of weaponry? -guns, rifles & automatic weapons?

Define "suburban environment" in this context. Is rural living -that area that every city has on its fringe that is neither true suburban nor country (eg the 3 or 5 Ha size blocks) Are they out or in for the defintion of "suburban environment"

So the list of some very grey areas goes on

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2013 21:42:00 GMT 10 Lord Stockton said:

rre#3

"No one needs a gun in a suburban environment.
Only a complete moron would think to justify urban firearms ownership"

No firearms for the police?

London

No guns for security guards (eg armagard or Brinks)?

see above

No guns for vets who go into the country ?

Rural, I said Urban Environment. You can read, can't you ?

No guns for sporting pistol clubs? Like the one located in Old Noarlunga -south of Adelaide & now in close proximity to suburbia. Should their activies now be banned & if so why?

No, No (sic) "Guns for sporting pistol clubs", There is no use for it, especially in an urban environment, its not even a sport.
As I heavily implied in a latter post, even if it needs a complete change in culture, Guns are an anathema to an urban environment. Guns and Suburbs are incompatible. It can't get simpler than that.

Then what about cross bow clubs like the one in Claredon (another outer suburb these days of Adelaide)? Or are cross bows not as deadly as guns at 10 or 20 mtrs?

What about Cross-Bows?
They should be banned as well. Fair Dinkum idiot; Just when do you expect Robin Hood to come charging through your front door ?

No school cadet units where kids actually get the chance to learn how to PROPERLY handle all forms of weaponry? -guns, rifles & automatic weapons?

No, No School Cadets, what sort of idiot would give a Juvenile a weapon?
Not only are you a Pompous loon, your a fist class twit too, Stockton.
Remind me never to employ you as my financial adviser, You'd do my dough before I even got the chance to accumulate it, going by your astounding inability to think.

Define "suburban environment" in this context. Is rural living -that area that every city has on its fringe that is neither true suburban nor country (eg the 3 or 5 Ha size blocks) Are they out or in for the defintion of "suburban environment"

Errr, Rural is Rural, Stockton, You know the Bush ?

So the list of some very grey areas goes on

No, Stockton, there's no Grey Areas, except... Oh hang on, even between your ears there's no grey area.
As you have just proven, only a complete Moron would try to justify Gun Ownership in an Urban environment.

[Deleted]

Dunno how well you know Adelaide, Stellar.

Don't know it at all. I have been there though, but that was a long time ago as a teen on holidays with the oldies. My Dad had this thing about seeing Australia first before we saw the world.

So, my memories of Adelaide are this - a pretty town with lots of churches.

I've never even considered returning.

[Deleted]

Can't even be bothered replying to your rubbish Richo. But it's fun winding you up.