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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 30, 2012 8:40:57 GMT 10
Then atheists can't believe in reason or rationality . 1. Reason is conceptual by nature and doesn't exist physically nor can it be proven to exist as a physical process. 2. Reason cannot be proven to exist by anything but itself, thus making it a tautology. (eg: One must must believe themselves to be using reason, in order to offer evidence for reason.) 3. Therefore, an atheist must accept by faith that reason exists, in order for him to believe he is being reasonable.
4. If an atheist cannot accept by faith that reason exists, then it's pointless to argue with them because they are irrational.
5. If an atheists can concede they possess faith in matters of laws and concepts outside of themselves, then similar faith in God cannot be considered irrational.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 30, 2012 8:47:40 GMT 10
You think Atheists are irrational?
We would be if we believed in some non-existent creature watching over us, but hey, that's fantasy stuff.
We believe in reality.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 30, 2012 8:50:46 GMT 10
That's an assertion, not an argument.
Care to argue something, rather than simply assert it?
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 10:08:08 GMT 10
I honestly don't know why you atheists take Veritas on...he slam dunks you every single time....I actually feel somewhat embarrassed for you.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 30, 2012 12:41:39 GMT 10
I honestly don't know why you atheists take Veritas on...he slam dunks you every single time....I actually feel somewhat embarrassed for you. What, did he magically produce evidence that a God exists? Damn, I missed it. Can you give us the link?
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 30, 2012 12:42:25 GMT 10
Btw, Earl is winning this one too.
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Post by garfield on Dec 30, 2012 13:45:01 GMT 10
God does exist and you'll find all the evidence you need between Sams left and right ears
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 30, 2012 14:35:03 GMT 10
But that space is void!
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 30, 2012 14:41:49 GMT 10
Some would argue that the first assertion can be challenged. 1. Reason is conceptual by nature and doesn't exist physically nor can it be proven to exist as a physical process. "Proof" is a strong word. There is much evidence that reason is a physical process of the brain. The three main "areas" of the brain perform different functions: The brain stem and cerebellum. These structures automatically take care of all the functional behaviors and internal body controls like heartbeat, muscle movement and breathing. The limbic system - the amygdala, hippocampus, and hypothalamus is where the "emotional" part of our brain resides. It generates strong emotions, passive and aggressive and positive and negative. "Fight or flight." Choosing a mate type decisions happen in those parts. The neocortex handles activities such as reasoning, deep thinking, learning from the past, solving problems and the ability to predict outcomes etc. The evidence for a physical process can be tested via electrical, surgical and chemical alteration of the various brain parts. As for "proof" ? Can we ever prove anything apart from simple logical or mathematical problems? That only answers the 'how', not the 'why'. So you believe that 'reason' is a random mixing of chemical soup produced by your brain. Blind reactions based on locations within your brain. Am I correct? ..So then why do you rely on in to give you a proper account of what is real? Since ultimately the effect of this mixing should have no more significance than the shaking of a soda can? Random causes, only produce random effects, after all. Only intelligent causes can produce intelligence. You can call it Aliens, God, etc. But you must concede a design is in play for you to depend on reason.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 30, 2012 14:52:38 GMT 10
If you think belief without evidence is all you need... well... time will tell. I don't think anyone expressed that. It's not all we need, rather it's something that EVERYONE depends on. Whether they choose to accept it or not. ;D Yep. And there are even some people who believe the universe oscillates.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 30, 2012 16:27:42 GMT 10
The design is called evolution.
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 17:46:58 GMT 10
Yes it is....creation and evolution go hand in hand.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 30, 2012 17:48:36 GMT 10
No, evolution keeps evolving.
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 18:07:45 GMT 10
No, evolution keeps evolving. Slarti that is the point of creation. it must evolve and continue on....and don't bother accusing me of changing my views to fit....I have believed this for years. As I have always said...."God said, let there be light, and there was BIG BANG". Perhaps if atheists could open their minds somewhat and see this as real possibility, they would have a far more rounded understanding of what life is.
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 18:32:38 GMT 10
You shouldn't take the bible so literally Phil.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 30, 2012 18:55:17 GMT 10
How else are you supposed to read it? It is "the word of God".
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 18:56:38 GMT 10
I don't throw them out Phil...I am able to realise that this was written at a time when people had very little in the way of seeing the big picture. Hope that makes sense.
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 19:08:02 GMT 10
well like anything, the bible should evolve as well. My fellow christians may not agree but we have to live in the world as it is now. I avoid religious debate because my opinions are a little more alternative but I do believe Jesus died for us, I do believe that you can only get to the father/heaven through his son. I do believe that the bible is a great text book for life......but we do need to realise the world is very different than it was a couple of thousands years ago. I don't discuss my beliefs on anyone unless they ask. I have no issue with people believing in what ever God they choose. The God of the bible is imo the one true God but hey, someone who worships Thor may believe the same thing.....each to their own.
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 19:15:13 GMT 10
so true
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Post by garfield on Dec 30, 2012 22:09:24 GMT 10
You know what?, the talking snakes, the garden of incest, the night of the living dead jesus fellah, the little wooden boat with two of every animal and the sick sadistic actions of an evil torturing murdering child killer god isn't even the most absurd thing that the religious believe, it gets worse, they actually think that theres a hell with fire and little evil devilly things where people go to get f_cked over for all of eternity for not believing their delusional shite Straight jacket anyone
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 22:17:58 GMT 10
you want to share yours?
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 30, 2012 22:27:47 GMT 10
Very good, Garfield. So true!
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Post by garfield on Dec 30, 2012 22:35:22 GMT 10
No I'm keeping it in case I ever turn to religion
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Post by jody on Dec 30, 2012 22:35:57 GMT 10
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Post by garfield on Dec 30, 2012 22:38:07 GMT 10
You can borrow me cuckoo clock though, be right at home at your place ;D
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