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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 27, 2012 1:24:27 GMT 10
It is believed that Zoroaster was a monotheist but that it was the Magi who had sought to re-introduce the paganism of their ancient Iranian heritage. According to Herodotus, the Persians had learned the worship of "Mitra" from the Babylonians. Mitra, or Mithra was an ancient Iranian deity, which the Magi assimilated to Bel, the chief god of the Babylonians. Bel, or Marduk, was a species of dying god worshipped throughout the ancient Middle East. Every year, corresponding to our Easter, his death and resurrection was celebrated, believed to symbolize the fertility cycle of nature. He was a god recognized as the Sun, and often symbolized by the bull, but also as a ram or a goat. In imitation of the Babylonian triad of Bel, Shamash, and the goddess Ishtar, Mithras was recognized as one of three chief deities, along with Ahura Mazda and Anahita, as the Sun, Moon and Venus. The Persians also worshipped the "four elements". Therefore, according to Strabo Greek geographer of the first century AD:
"Now the Persians do not erect statues or altars, but offer sacrifice on a high place, regarding the heavens as Zeus [Ahura-Mazda]; and they also worship Helios [the Sun], who they call Mithras, and Selene [Anahita or the Moon] and Aphrodite, and fire and earth and winds and water [the four elements]"www.thedyinggod.com/chaldeanmagi/The Cyrus Cylinder confirms this. Looks like your book is due for a retraction, Buzz. ;D |
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Post by jody on Dec 27, 2012 10:02:20 GMT 10
oh no Sam....you're not going to start on about the masked zoro people too are you :0
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Post by jody on Dec 27, 2012 11:52:45 GMT 10
No Buzz I am not. Please stop this silliness.
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Post by jody on Dec 27, 2012 12:07:29 GMT 10
Antonio Banderas looked ok too  |
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Post by matt on Dec 27, 2012 13:18:12 GMT 10
The Zoroastrians are interesting Buzz, please tell us more!  ;D |
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Post by jody on Dec 27, 2012 15:40:01 GMT 10
Just coz you say it is true, doesn't mean it is Buzz.
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Post by jody on Dec 27, 2012 19:08:10 GMT 10
lol....you just can't help yourself can you!
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Post by jody on Dec 27, 2012 19:28:33 GMT 10
I'm just not interested Buzz. You believe what ever you want.
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Post by matt on Dec 27, 2012 20:00:11 GMT 10
We're all Zoroastrians!
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Post by fat on Dec 27, 2012 23:13:40 GMT 10
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 28, 2012 2:45:30 GMT 10
Buzz wrote a book on it.
His professional reputation is at stake.
He'll never admit he was wrong, even though it's obvious to everyone else.
Just smile and nod.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 28, 2012 2:48:04 GMT 10
I will say it again - and this time pay attention. The Zoroastrians believe that Ahura-Mazda is the one and only god who then went on to make other gods - good and bad - but they are part of his creation in the first instance. The Zoroastrians believe there are good and bad gods and also some of the gods that are benign are: made by Ahura-Mazda or Are Ahura-Mazda by another name. Read some books by Boyce you ignorant peon. Only Zoroaster was a monotheist. The Zoroastrians were not. Besides, everyone knows monotheism came from Mesopotamia. What do you suppose the Jews were before Jacob and the Hebrew religion? UH...DErp DerP! |
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Post by fat on Dec 28, 2012 9:07:34 GMT 10
I like Katherine Zeta Jones in anything.  Tell it brother! Tell it! ;D |
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Post by jody on Dec 28, 2012 10:45:33 GMT 10
so does Zorro have a catch phrase? To infinity and beyond? |
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Post by fat on Dec 29, 2012 3:31:15 GMT 10
With whom do you speak it? |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 30, 2012 8:28:56 GMT 10
Persians. The last time was with a Zartoshti. Iow: He doesn't really speak it, and he doesn't want you to call him on it. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 30, 2012 15:15:28 GMT 10
The last time I conversed in Farsi was with a Zoroastrian, a painter and a particularly nice fellow. He is now unwell sadly. Did you criticize his beliefs also? |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jan 2, 2013 0:45:29 GMT 10
That addressed NOTHING of what I asked:
Did you tell him his religion was a lie? yes/no.
It's not a hard question.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jan 3, 2013 8:47:17 GMT 10
I love how an atheist, who believes in nothing... Insists on telling us what we ought to believe.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jan 3, 2013 8:50:25 GMT 10
That addressed NOTHING of what I asked: Did you tell him his religion was a lie? yes/no. It's not a hard question. religions are lies. Have you noticed, the atheists who demand proof for every theistic claim... ...Often freely make their own, with no proof at all? Goalpost moving, anyone? |
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Post by fat on Jan 7, 2013 21:29:17 GMT 10
Perhaps your Zoroastrians were Christians Buzz.
Matthew tells of the magi coming from the East in response to the star rising. The magi, who were not called kings until the 6th century, were probably astronomer/astrologers from Mesopotamia or Persia. Some scholars today believe they may have been Zoroastrians, a religion that worshipped the god Mazda and which put great emphasis on the symbol of light.
Colin J. Humphreys in the article "The Star of Bethlehem -- a Comet in 5 BC -- and the Date of the Birth of Christ," (Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society 32, 389-407 (1991)), says it was not uncommon for magi to visit kings. Magi accompanied King Tiridates of Armenia when he paid homage to Nero, but for magi to have visited Jesus, the astronomical sign must have been powerful.
Maybe the Zoroastrians came to pay tribute to Jesus. Interesting wot?
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Post by pim on Jan 7, 2013 23:25:32 GMT 10
Farsi is an Indo European language as is English, that's true. But so are Hindi and Urdu. So are German, Dutch, the Scandinavian languages, French and all the Romance languages, the Celtic, or Gaelic, family of languages, and the vast Slavonic family of languages. But to say that just because language X is "similar to English" is misleading. For example I know that Dutch is "similar to English". A "hand" in English is also a "hand" in Dutch. An "arm" in English is also an "arm" in Dutch (the Dutch "arm", when used as an adjective, also means "poor" but that's another story), an "elbow" in English is an "elleboog" in Dutch ... and so on. The similarities between Dutch and English are obvious at first glance and that's because they are both north west Germanic languages. On the other hand if you look at English and a Slavonic language like Polish the relationship is a lot more distant, a lot less direct and a lot more subtle. For an English-speaking person to hear Dutch spoken slowly is often to be able to catch the gist of what's being said. If I were to say in Dutch "Ik drink een glas water" an English-speaking person needs no translation. On the other hand if a Polish person were to say "Napij siê trochê wody jeœli jesteœ spragniony" I don't think he'd get very far in an English speaking country. As for Farsi, you can find a list of common "survival" Farsi phrases here mylanguages.org/farsi_phrases.php#greeting I can recognise the odd French loan word but there's not much obvious relationship with English. It's true that Farsi is part of an Indo-European linguistic continuum that extends from the British Isles through Europe to the Caucasus and Central Asia to Afghanistan and into the Indian sub continent where Sanskrit is the basis of many Indian languages. - And beyond! Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Indonesia also owe a lot to Sanskrit, and through them even the Arnnhem Land Aboriginal languages of Australia have been touched by Sanskrit. So you could even argue for a linguistic connection - an ancient one - between Arnhem Land Aboriginal languages and English. But to say that therefore they are "similar" to English is rather far-fetched, don't you think?? |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jan 8, 2013 10:33:44 GMT 10
Judaism is Zoroastrianism with a different name because Ezra - Nehemiah imposed it. Read Ezra - Nehemiah The Magi were astrologers and Zoroastrians - the Zoroastrians believe in a Saviour born of a Virgin its the same as your beliefs. Of coarse they did. There were Jews who remained behind in Babylonia. (As the scripture implies..) Daniel was also one of the King's top Advisers, which would have made him Magi by inference. That would have been made responsible for some of the teaching and prophecies throughout Babylonia. (That would certainly explain the Magi's later interest in the Christ Child, and what signs to look for.) ...Had you ever considered that? Josephus had also mentioned that Cyrus himself, was exposed to the prophecies of Isaiah. In Antiquities of the Jews - Book XI |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jan 8, 2013 10:52:17 GMT 10
The goalposts haven't moved... all religions are lies. (Myths, fables, if you prefer a softer description.) Of coarse the one who moved the goalpost would insist the criteria of the debate hasn't changed. (We weren't supposed to have noticed, in the first place.) |
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Post by pim on Jan 8, 2013 11:47:26 GMT 10
The goalposts haven't moved... all religions are lies. (Myths, fables, if you prefer a softer description.) Of coarse the one who moved the goalpost would insist the criteria of the debate hasn't changed. (We weren't supposed to have noticed, in the first place.) Well, you wouldn't have noticed if he'd moved the goalpost smoothly , and if he were really insisting that the "criteria hasn't [sic] changed" (shades of George Dubya with his "Is our kids learning?) then he deserves every bit of lampooning and rubbishing that he gets.  |
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;D
