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Post by matt on Dec 20, 2012 0:40:06 GMT 10
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Post by jody on Dec 20, 2012 5:58:33 GMT 10
rubbish....without a gun, maniacs couldn't do as much damage. I cannot believe you are simple enough not to understand that Matt.....what purpose has anyone got for an automatic and semi automatic weapon......blood hell.
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Post by volk on Dec 20, 2012 6:17:48 GMT 10
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."
But mentally disturbed people with access to the right choice of weapon have shown they can kill lots of people.
Drawing a comparison to Timothy Mc Veigh in this argument is about as invalid as focusing on Union Carbide..... and they didn't use a gun either. A completely irrelevant point!
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 20, 2012 6:19:21 GMT 10
It is just as irrelevant as skippy's argument about drones.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 6:31:54 GMT 10
I note that Matty-boy is chanting slogans again.
His brain is incapable of anything else.
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Post by matt on Dec 20, 2012 7:45:19 GMT 10
I have never dine it before, but at the next NSW State Election, I'll be voting for the Shooters Party for the upper house!
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Post by pim on Dec 20, 2012 7:48:41 GMT 10
Not Fred Nile? So it's Guns before God and the White Backlash?
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Post by garfield on Dec 20, 2012 8:04:51 GMT 10
The witch hunters are angry and need someone to burn so they turn on the law abiding gun owners as if they are somehow an accessory after the fact.
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Post by jody on Dec 20, 2012 8:24:35 GMT 10
I think Matt jumps on any band wagon.
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Post by garfield on Dec 20, 2012 8:28:11 GMT 10
If jesus was armed he'd still be alive today.
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Post by volk on Dec 20, 2012 8:29:30 GMT 10
The witch hunters are angry and need someone to burn so they turn on the law abiding gun owners as if they are somehow an accessory after the fact. I don't think anyone's "turning on the law abiding gun owners" Garfield. It's more the point of ridding society of firearms that even serious hunters and competition shooters question the need, secondly is getting rid of the massive number of firearms in a given society. How many firearms in the USA, this week I've heard quoted 270 to 300 million? A few "law abiding gun owners" I know in Australia handed in their pointless SKS, SKK, Jungmann and M1 carbines etc in the 1990s gun buy back and bought quality European bolt action equipment with the compensation, very fine firearms too I might add. Is there a problem heading in that direction, nobody's denying the responsible ownership of valid recreational or sporting firearms. Modern society will never control crooks getting their hands on firearms, not unless they hit them with an automatic 5 year sentence for 'committing a crime with a firearm' and we know that ain't going to happen. I know you didn't raise this point, I'm just chewin' the fat on this issue.
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Post by volk on Dec 20, 2012 8:31:17 GMT 10
If jesus was armed he'd still be alive today. I just had a vision of Judas being 'taken out' Jack Ruby style.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 8:32:25 GMT 10
However no one could possibly need a high powered assault weapon and high powered ammunition. What legitimate purpose could these weapons be used for??
Banning those will go a long way to stopping the carnage. Mentally ill people can still be highly intelligent and extremely cunning. They know to kill the maximum number of people they need a high powered assault rifle and at present they seem to have no restrictions in obtaining one. Although any normal gunshop owner would do a double take if someone as weird as Adam Lanza turned up wanting to purchase an AK47 for instance, there were no problems in Nancy Lanza obtaining a whole arsenal of weapons including assault weapons. Why did she think she needed those types of assault weapons?
Especially when she had a mentally ill son who was so "off the planet" even she must have realised that her guns should have been secured under lock and key 24/7.
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Post by garfield on Dec 20, 2012 9:47:04 GMT 10
Especially when she had a mentally ill son who was so "off the planet" even she must have realised that her guns should have been secured under lock and key 24/7. Yep, glad he shot her at least ... the flipin idiot.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 10:01:05 GMT 10
The witch hunters are angry and need someone to burn so they turn on the law abiding gun owners as if they are somehow an accessory after the fact. Exactly Garfield.
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Post by pim on Dec 20, 2012 10:05:02 GMT 10
Plenty of law-abiding gun owners support gun laws. Why the trolling garfield?
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Post by garfield on Dec 20, 2012 10:24:48 GMT 10
Don't like lynch mobs thats all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2012 11:38:03 GMT 10
Another WHITIE runs amok with a gun in the USA....from The New York Times....4 Firefighters Shot, 2 Fatally, in New York; Gunman DeadBy MATT FLEGENHEIMER | Monday, December 24, 2012House fires burned in Webster, New York, near Rochester Monday morning after two firefighters were shot dead when they responded to a fire. Two more firefighters were wounded. — Photo: Reuters.FOUR FIREFIGHTERS were shot — two fatally — after apparently being lured to an early morning blaze on Monday in Webster, New York, a lakefront town about 12 miles northeast of Rochester, officials said.
The suspected assailant also died there of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, the town’s police chief, Gerald L. Pickering, said.
“It does appear that it was a trap that was set,” he said of the blaze that drew the firefighters about 5:30 a.m.
After starting the fire, he said, the shooter assumed a “position of cover” and began firing, sniper-like, at the first responders.
Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester said two firefighters were in “guarded condition.” The two others died at the scene, Chief Pickering said.
He said seven homes were destroyed and had not yet been searched.
“We don’t know if there are any additional victims in those homes,” he said.William Spengler, 62. — Photo: MPNnow.com.The gunman was identified as William Spengler, 62, who lived at 191 Lake Road, where the fire began, and had served about 18 years in prison for killing his grandmother, the police chief said. Officials said he was imprisoned until 1998, and had remained on supervised parole until 2006.
Mr. Spengler’s motives were unclear, though Chief Pickering said “there were certainly mental health issues involved.”
Chief Pickering said an on-duty Webster police officer exchanged “very brief” gunfire with Mr. Spengler and “in all likelihood saved many lives.”
But, he said, authorities scoured the area for hours trying to locate the gunman before he was found dead about 11 a.m.
“It’s dark. We’ve got this raging inferno with black smoke everywhere,” he said. “We flooded the crime scene with officers.”
As for whether someone else might have been in the burned house where Mr. Spengler lived, Chief Pickering said that “it is possible that a sister of Mr. Spengler is unaccounted for.”
He said “at least a rifle was used” by Mr. Spengler to fire at the first responders. He noted that as a felon, Mr. Spengler was not authorized to possess weapons.SWAT team trucks were on the scene of the Webster fire and shootings. — Photo: Seth Binnix/MPNnow.com/Messenger Post Media.The firefighters were from the West Webster Fire Department, about four miles from the blaze, and were believed to be volunteers.
One of the firefighters was “able to flee the scene on his own,” Chief Pickering said. “The other three were pinned down at the location.”
As he recited the names of those killed and wounded, Chief Pickering repeatedly choked up. One of the deceased, Michael J. Chiapperini, was a police lieutenant in the Webster Police Department; the other, Tomasz Kaczowka, was a 911 dispatcher for Monroe County.
“These people get up in the middle of the night to go put out fires,” he said. “They don’t expect to be shot and killed.”
John Ritter, an off-duty police officer from Greece, New York, who happened to be driving by and stopped to help, suffered shrapnel wounds from the shooting, Chief Pickering added. The firefighters who were injured, both volunteers, were identified as Joseph Hofstetter and Theodore Scardino.
Governor Andrew M. Cuomo said the State Police and the Office of Emergency Management were working with local officials. He said Webster firefighters and the police had initially responded to a car fire.
“New York’s first responders are true heroes as they time and again selflessly rush toward danger in order to keep our families and communities safe,” Mr. Cuomo said. “Volunteer firefighters and police officers were injured and two were taken from us as they once again answered the call of duty. We as the community of New York mourn their loss as now two more families must spend the holidays without their loved ones.”
The fire continued to burn through the morning, spreading to several homes, before being brought under control.
Chief Pickering added that, with authorities establishing and investigating the crime scene, “it took a while to make it safe” for firefighters to move in and combat the flames.The New York Times.The site of the fire runs along a narrow spit of land that divides Lake Ontario from Irondequoit Bay. The houses in the affected area are detached wood-frame homes with yards, across the street from the lake.
Chief Pickering likened the area to “a little vacation nest.”
“We have very few calls for service in that location,” he said.
Michael D’Amico, a contractor who has lived on Lake Road for 20 years, said residents were evacuated to a school. “We still can’t go back,” he said.
The area is home to many summer houses, he said, but some people lived there year-round.
“A lot of times I get woken up by gunfire, but I don’t think too much of it,” Mr. D’Amico said, noting that the area often attracted duck hunters.
“Usually the gunfire comes from the lake or the bay,” he added. “This was from further down the road.”
Vince DiPrima, an assistant manager at Bill Gray’s, a diner across the bridge from the fires, said some firefighters had visited his restaurant on Monday morning. He gave them some coffee.
“The stuff that happened in Connecticut the other day, and then this,” Mr. DiPrima said.
By noon, State Police helicopters swarmed overhead. Emergency vehicles zipped past.
“It’s a weird feeling,” Mr. DiPrima said. “It’s Christmas Eve.”• J. David Goodman and Wendy Ruderman contributed reporting.www.nytimes.com/2012/12/25/nyregion/2-firefighters-killed-in-western-new-york.html
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Post by caskur on Dec 26, 2012 4:45:09 GMT 10
guns embolden people who are otherwise gutless!
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Post by jody on Dec 26, 2012 8:25:56 GMT 10
guns embolden people who are otherwise gutless! exactly Caskur.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 9:50:42 GMT 10
The situation in America is starting to resemble the crisis over slavery in the 1850's. Every normal person can see that there is something wrong with keeping people as slaves/making dangerous weapons freely available; but the problems are/were too entrenched to be solved. It took a Civil War to bring about the end of slavery. Abolishing the Slave Trade in 1807 did nothing about the millions of slaves still in bondage. Limiting the sale of firearms will do nothing about the millions(!)of them in private possession. It would take another Civil War to do something about this.
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Post by bender on Dec 26, 2012 14:57:45 GMT 10
That's a little bit over the top David. Statistically the people who carry out these sorts of attacks are young, and (yes I know I'm generalising) and have purchased the weapons they've used fairly shortly before they've carried out the attack. Ceasing the immediate availability of these weapons to new purchasers should (statistically speaking) produce a statistically significant reduction in these weapons use in school/workplace massacres. Add that to a ban on Magazines for these weapons that carry more then 5 rounds and even when these weapons still make an appearance, the odds of someone being able to successfully intervene in the incident go way up (it's believed at this point that the Newtown Massacre ended when the perpetrator had a weapon stoppage whilst trying to change magazines.
There aren't millions of "these types" of weapons already in circulation. It's only been in the past few years (ironically, since the Clinton assault weapons ban expired) that the patent or copyright on the design for the M4 moved into the phase where any company can produce them (on paying the patent holder the appropriate license fee). Yes there are plenty of other types of weapons (the Ruger Mini-14 for instance) that also carry the features of these military style assault rifles, but as I pointed out, banning the sale of these weapons from now onwards brings an immediate result in as much as it prevents potential perpetrators who have not yet purchased a weapon from getting their hands (hopefully) on that type of weapon.
It all depends on how honest a person you are, as to how you look at the results. If you're someone who would claim that a ban on the sale of these types of weapons and limitations on magazine capacities is a total failure if post the implimentation of a ban there is 1 more attack with a perpetrator who obtained his weapon before the ban, or got around it somehow then you probably haven't come to the debate with an honest heart.
Abolishing the slave trade did have an effect David, it prevented more Africans from being kidnapped and trafficked across the Atlantic. Looking at it from the perspective that it was useless because it did nothing about people already enslaved in the US is a fairly myopic view.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 17:01:46 GMT 10
I find it odd that there are those here who, at once, fight for the right to life while fighting for the right to kill.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 18:07:27 GMT 10
I find it odd that there are those here who, at once, fight for the right to kill defenceless unborn babies ( 1 million per year in the US ) while fighting to supposedly save the lives of the defenceless.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 18:09:33 GMT 10
The U.S. has about 10 times the population of Australia. The U.S. has 100 times the number of gun related deaths. The majority of those deaths being suicides, the rest being significantly street gang/drug related.
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