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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 15, 2012 1:05:00 GMT 10
Few religions are definite about the size of Heaven, but on the planet Earth the Book of Revelation (ch. XXI, v.16) gives it as a cube 12,000 furlongs on a side. This is somewhat less than 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic feet. Even allowing that the Heavenly Host and other essential services take up at least two thirds of this space, this leaves about one million cubic feet of space for each human occupant- assuming that every creature that could be called ‘human’ is allowed in, and the the human race eventually totals a thousand times the numbers of humans alive up until now. This is such a generous amount of space that it suggests that room has also been provided for some alien races or - a happy thought - that pets are allowed.
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Post by sonex on Dec 15, 2012 8:48:21 GMT 10
Only the soul goes to heaven, and surely that wouldn't need to be larger than the brain which holds all our thoughts, memories, etc.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 15, 2012 9:10:03 GMT 10
Is this a joke?
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Post by jody on Dec 15, 2012 9:18:59 GMT 10
I have no doubt I will be reunited with all my pets who have passed  |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 15, 2012 9:20:15 GMT 10
It's in there.
"And the city lies foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal." Revelation 21:16
Look it up for yourself.
But I misspoke in the title. That will only be the size of New Jerusalem, a mere city in the new earth. (It is written God will make a new heaven and new earth) The whole of it must be immense!
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 15, 2012 10:08:55 GMT 10
Just because something is written in the Bible does not mean it is true.
Can't believe that seemingly intelligent people would believe this twaddle.
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Post by pim on Dec 15, 2012 17:18:58 GMT 10
The Hereafter is a difficult concept. I wish the paleo atheists could go into suspended animation on this thread because no matter how much they spam the board with their simplistic denials the subject of heaven and hell are nevertheless of interest since so much of western poetry, music and art are taken up by it. You can't come to grips with Italian high culture, for example, without a familiarity with Dante's Divine Comedy in which the Roman poet Virgil takes the poet on a tour of Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. Greater minds than ours have grappled with the Hereafter.
Nevertheless it is a fact that astronauts, on returning to Earth, have said they didn't see God or Heaven anywhere up there. I kinda suspect that if the Jules Verne science fiction novel about a journey to the centre of the Earth ever bacame science fact, and humans actually managed to travel to the centre of the Earth, they'd find a lot of molten rock but no Satan and no demons torturing the damned.
In fact you can't describe Heaven and Hell in terms that would be familiar to a scientist. However you will find a very good description of Hell in the Christopher Marlowe play Doctor Faustus. Marlowe was a contemporary of Shakespeare. In it, the demon Mephistopheles, a servant of Lucifer, describes Hell as the absence of God. He reveals to Faustus that he is a fallen angel who allied himself with Lucifer in rebellion against God and, as punishment, is denied the Holy Visage forever. Since all those fallen angels had at one stage existed in the presence of God, and had beheld his countenance, the sudden and permanent deprivation of that presence and sight of that countenance was torture. One is reminded of what one is told of the agonies of withdrawal from a heroin addiction - except that in the case of Hell the withdrawal pangs are permanent.
Forget the "fallen angels" stuff. That's just allegory. So is the name "Mephistopheles" which doesn't exist in any verse in the Bible. But get beyond that biblical literalist hangup and come to grips with the concept of Hell as a state of being rather than as a place. Same with Heaven. Surely it would be a state of bliss rather than a place. According to this scenario, Heaven is permanent bliss - like you're high on your favourite forbidden substance, that you never come down from that high and you will never ever have to worry about withdrawals. Or maybe it's a permanent orgasm. Who knows!!
I'd have thought that the thing about life and death is that once you're dead you're out of the loop as far as the living are concerned. You no longer exist. You're spoken about in the past tense: "the name of the deceased was ...". It's why I don't like it when somebody on the other side of a counter asks me "what was your name?" I really do feel like answering "I'm not dead yet!!" So being dead means you're out of space/time. The body that they either cremate or bury at your funeral is no longer you because you no longer exist. And "existence" implies space/time. To "exist" is to be a part of space/time. Once you're out of that space/time loop, phht! you're history.
Unlike the paleo-atheists I don't despise the idea of a Hereafter. I think about my parents, even though they passed away a little over 20 years ago, and I feel guilty that I haven't visited their graves for years - since they're buried in Sydney and I live in Adelaide. But why do we think about the dead? Why do we remember them? If they no longer exist why should it matter whether or not we visit their gravesite, clean away the weeds and maybe leave a fresh bunch of flowers? That's what I did the last time I visited the lawn cemetery where my parents are buried. Why de we get upset if someone desecrates a grave? Is it all about us who are still alive and none of it is about the dead? I find cemeteries, especially old cemeteries, interesting places. Ever seen this epitaph on an old gravestone?
Remember Man as you go by
As you are now so once was I
As I am now so shall you be,
Prepare yourself to follow me
We're too wimpish these days to place an epitaph like that on a gravestone. Too confonting! We're into death denial these days. But it tells the truth, doesn't it! The Hereafter? I really wouldn't know! But I'm not going to dismiss the concept. Too much hubris in the denials and the scorn of the paleo atheists. And eternity is a long time.
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Post by pim on Dec 15, 2012 17:41:56 GMT 10
You left out "Inc", with the sub-heading "Hereafter Insurance a Speciality!"   |
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Post by garfield on Dec 15, 2012 20:21:07 GMT 10
Few religions are definite about the size of Heaven, but on the planet Earth the Book of Revelation (ch. XXI, v.16) gives it as a cube 12,000 furlongs on a side. This is somewhat less than 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic feet. Even allowing that the Heavenly Host and other essential services take up at least two thirds of this space, this leaves about one million cubic feet of space for each human occupant- assuming that every creature that could be called ‘human’ is allowed in, and the the human race eventually totals a thousand times the numbers of humans alive up until now. This is such a generous amount of space that it suggests that room has also been provided for some alien races or - a happy thought - that pets are allowed.  |
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Post by garfield on Dec 15, 2012 21:19:42 GMT 10
I have no doubt I will be reunited with all my pets who have passed I shall be going to Hell and I have no doubt that I will be reunited with all my old lost socks. |
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 15, 2012 23:38:22 GMT 10
Few religions are definite about the size of Heaven, but on the planet Earth the Book of Revelation (ch. XXI, v.16) gives it as a cube 12,000 furlongs on a side. This is somewhat less than 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic feet. Even allowing that the Heavenly Host and other essential services take up at least two thirds of this space, this leaves about one million cubic feet of space for each human occupant- assuming that every creature that could be called ‘human’ is allowed in, and the the human race eventually totals a thousand times the numbers of humans alive up until now. This is such a generous amount of space that it suggests that room has also been provided for some alien races or - a happy thought - that pets are allowed. 100% agree with you, Garfield. Those views are just too obscenely stupid to belong to anyone who pretends to live in reality. Cuckoo indeed! |
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Post by garfield on Dec 16, 2012 7:04:07 GMT 10
It sure is some wacky shit, you read stuff like that and then you have to pinch yourself and check the calender to make sure its still 2012 and you haven't been caught in time warp and whisked back to the dark ages ;D
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 16, 2012 7:33:29 GMT 10
I'm sure some still live there! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 10:03:32 GMT 10
OK, by my conversion, 12,000 furlongs is a tad over 2,400 km.. "..and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs" Would have taken him a f'n long time!!  OK assuming it is a cube... the base area is just shy of 6,000,000 km²...twice the size of Australia (so no fit there) A third bigger again the Europe (not going there either) It would fit in Continental North America, so long as Canada were happy to have a bit. All of South America could accommodate it and they are largely Catholic, so they likely wouldn't share with anyone else... That just leaves Asia and Africa... And what about the height? Can't breathe above 6km without assistance, what are we going to do with the other 2,394? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 13:50:58 GMT 10
I have no doubt I will be reunited with all my pets who have passed I shall be going to Hell and I have no doubt that I will be reunited with all my old lost socks. Ahh! Lost socks! Latest research into the disappearance of just one of a pair during the laundry cycle shows they evaporate and collect in the Hose-zone Layer! ;D |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 17, 2012 10:22:51 GMT 10
Just because something is written in the Bible does not mean it is true. Just because it's written in the Bible, doesn't make it untrue, either. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 17, 2012 10:25:05 GMT 10
I have no doubt I will be reunited with all my pets who have passed I shall be going to Hell and I have no doubt that I will be reunited with all my old lost socks. I would think it'd be it's own Hell to be one of your old socks, garfield. But you were thinking of Narnia, not Hell.. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 17, 2012 10:29:42 GMT 10
Actually, god is really Dr. Who, and we will all fit inside his Tardis.  'Doctor Who.' Spelling, please. Have some respect. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 17, 2012 12:11:08 GMT 10
Yes.
But the name of the show is "Doctor Who", not 'Dr. Who.'
(Since 'Who', isn't actually the doctor's name.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 7:30:47 GMT 10
He is 'The Doctor'...nothing else!
Actually, it's ' ∂³∑x² '...., but don't tell anybody!
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 22, 2012 23:37:29 GMT 10
But 'Doctor Who?' Is the question that must never be answered.
Silence will fall, when that question is asked.
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