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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 13:08:43 GMT 10
Sorry Buzzo but that is utter nonsense.
Religion is about beliefs in a revelation and VALUES.
Who decides intrinsic human worth ? Evolution ? Nature - red in tooth and claw? The mob ? And given the slaughter, slavery and carnage witnessed by the human race over countless thousands of years you trust human judgment?
If human judgement and values could have sorted things out IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED LONG LONG BEFORE NOW.
btw where does empathy arise from a purely materialistic world ?
Where does empathy arise from orbiting protons, neutrons and electrons?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 13:16:16 GMT 10
religions are corrupt and criminal
All religions? How do you come to that conclusion?
I wonder if all those people in hospices and leprosy missions run by the Church agree?
I've been a member of several churches and never seen corruption and criminality.
Again - IF HUMAN JUDGEMENT could have solved things it would have done so by now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 13:54:54 GMT 10
Studies in the US have shown that religious people are usually the strongest if not the strongest donators to charity.
And your arguments from child molestation don't make sense. Are you seriously claiming that child molestation only occurs in those with religious belief? If so it's a false comparison because most people on earth have a religious belief.
You telling me those with no religious belief have never molested children?
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Post by Salem on Dec 8, 2012 15:15:20 GMT 10
Buzz is right about morality. Morals don't come from religion exclusively. My mother for example is a staunch atheist but she is the most moral woman I know. Religion has nothing to do with morals.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 15:19:34 GMT 10
Buzz is right about morality. Morals don't come from religion exclusively. My mother for example is a staunch atheist but she is the most moral woman I know. Religion has nothing to do with morals. Salem, my point is not that atheists cannot have morals the problem for them is they lack moral absolutes and what yardstick do they use for morals? Utilitiarian, reverse-utilitiarian etc. And what about moral absolutes, without God there are no moral absolutes, so who decides morals? The mob ? Evolution ? And in a strictly materialistic world how do morals emerge from lifeless matter ie orbiting protons, electrons and neutrons? If we are in an ultimately pointless universe, driven only by survival and reproduction where does the sanctity of human life emerge from? The mob ? |
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 8, 2012 17:41:36 GMT 10
Buzz and Salem are totally correct.
We don't get our morals from religion. Evolution is what improves us, religion is what holds some back.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 17:48:22 GMT 10
Studies in the US have shown that religious people are usually the strongest if not the strongest donators to charity.
Likely to charities that line their own pockets?, and which impartial studies would these be then?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2012 17:52:19 GMT 10
without God there are no moral absolutes
Then where are these moral absolutes when these preachers of God are committing such heinous acts?
That these vile acts are committed by both religious and atheist alike would suggest that morals do not come from any God.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 14, 2012 16:12:53 GMT 10
You don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong then you lack empathy, not religion. But if there is no God, then everything is reducible to physical causes. If that is so, then 'empathy' is nothing more than a coincidental mixing of chemicals in your brain. Like the shaking of a bottle of soda. You'd base your morality on that? Really? |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 14, 2012 16:19:53 GMT 10
without God there are no moral absolutes Then where are these moral absolutes when these preachers of God are committing such heinous acts? That these vile acts are committed by both religious and atheist alike would suggest that morals do not come from any God. You've already answered your question, Grim. You've already determined the acts were vile, and you expect us to agree with you. Why would this be so, if morality weren't absolute? Just because we don't always know what is moral, or we sometimes ignore our moral sensibilities, that doesn't mean there isn't a moral rule. We can find ways around the law of gravity, but that doesn't mean an absolute law doesn't apply. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 14, 2012 16:24:23 GMT 10
Buzz is right about morality. Morals don't come from religion exclusively. My mother for example is a staunch atheist but she is the most moral woman I know. Religion has nothing to do with morals. I don't think anyone ever implied atheists couldn't be moral. Morality is a reflection of God's nature, and the ability to know what is moral exists in us, because we are made in His image. Studies have shown children as young as 6 months already have a sense of morality. This indicates it's an inborn behavior and not something learned from their parents or society. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 14, 2012 16:34:22 GMT 10
Get an atheist angry, then you'll see how 'relative' they think their morality ought to be.
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Post by jody on Dec 14, 2012 17:12:22 GMT 10
I agree....you don't need religion....it tends to stuff up your faith.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 17:46:53 GMT 10
That's a moral absolute in itself ! Congrats you've just proven that moral absolutes exist. |
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Post by fat on Dec 14, 2012 17:59:42 GMT 10
I agree....you don't need religion....it tends to stuff up your faith. Jody - I agree with you.  |
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Post by jody on Dec 14, 2012 18:31:14 GMT 10
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Post by garfield on Dec 14, 2012 21:03:39 GMT 10
The great thing about religion and god is that because it only resides in your own mind and not in the real world you can pretty well tailor make it around your own personal experience and circumstances.
There are a million variations on it, each one custom made to suit the individual that is espousing it, the funniest thing about the impressionable bible bashing christians here is that if the muslims got to them first they'd all be chanting allah akbar instead whereas I'd be my usual atheist self no matter what ;D
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 14, 2012 22:37:48 GMT 10
That's a moral absolute in itself ! Congrats you've just proven that moral absolutes exist. Not really, skip. It's a statement about morality, not a moral statement. ...But he seems to think we all have a moral obligation to accept that particular truth, which is. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 14, 2012 22:54:47 GMT 10
The great thing about religion and god is that because it only resides in your own mind and not in the real world you can pretty well tailor make it around your own personal experience and circumstances. As you can with thoughts about God and religion, since they only reside in your mind, as well. It's astounding how often atheists seem to conveniently forget that. Wow... Unmitigated extrapolation, there. The martyrdom of thousands of Christians in Islamic countries screams to the contrary, and is a testament to their faith and courage. Just as it was under the oppressive anti-religious regimes of Stalin and Mao. Whereas, the 'Noble' belligerent atheist tends to be becomes less bold and vocal when he realizes his beliefs might actually cost him something. Yes, its easy to be an atheist, when you are never required to have a spine to answer for it. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Dec 15, 2012 9:37:06 GMT 10
The great thing about religion and god is that because it only resides in your own mind and not in the real world you can pretty well tailor make it around your own personal experience and circumstances. There are a million variations on it, each one custom made to suit the individual that is espousing it, the funniest thing about the impressionable bible bashing christians here is that if the muslims got to them first they'd all be chanting allah akbar instead whereas I'd be my usual atheist self no matter what ;D That's actually a very good piece garfield. Quite correct. It lends evidence to the view that all regions are a crock, even different "brands" of the same religion... they all think they are the only "correct" religion. That's goalpost moving. I'd point out the belligerence of atheism is even greater, since religions can at least partially believe the other is correct. For instance, most religions can agree on the existence of deities, etc. Atheism cannot. Atheism also believes they are the only correct belief system, only they are too narrow minded to even entertain the notion they could be wrong. |
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Post by jody on Dec 15, 2012 9:40:15 GMT 10
Atheism is the worst of all cults.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 15, 2012 10:10:11 GMT 10
Don't be sorry, Earl.
You're speaking the only obvious truth.
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Post by jody on Dec 15, 2012 14:11:52 GMT 10
It is my opinion Buzz...not asking you to agree with it.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 15, 2012 14:54:46 GMT 10
Cults believe in whacky theories like buzz says.
Atheists believe that there is no God. Nothing whacky about that. Just logic. Atheists do not meet together, knock on people's doors or walk down the streets carrying silly slogans. They just know.
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Post by jody on Dec 15, 2012 14:55:32 GMT 10
Atheists most certainly go meet together Slarti.
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