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Post by slartibartfast on Nov 7, 2015 7:38:27 GMT 10
......why don't you pray that I stop?  |
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Post by pim on Nov 7, 2015 9:31:04 GMT 10
Shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the meaning and purpose of prayer. You're being like Ponto. You're framing it in binary form, i.e. you're either one extreme or the other and, as with all paleo-extremists whether of the paleo-atheist or paleo god-bothering variety, if you fail to sing from one of the paleo song sheets then you're immediately classed as the "enemy", a sinner who's surely bound for hell! In that regard, and I distinguish between rational reasonable thoughtful atheists and atheists of the "paleo" variety, just as I distinguish between biblical literalist hellfire science-denying paleo god botherers and religious people who are more inspired by Erasmus and Martin Luther King Jr than Jerry Falwell and Fred Nile, I lump religious and anti-religious extremists together.
If you're not interested in religion, why come onto the Religion board? If you're so anti-religion and harbour a deep resentment stemming from a blighted childhood that you have a psychological need to strike out, then you need help and I'm sorry but it's the sort of help you're not going to get on the religion board. Or maybe you're motivated by a puerile desire to get your kicks from coming onto a board like this one and insulting people's deeply held beliefs. If so that makes you a troll and no better than Matt who used to brag about how he'd drop into a Muslim board to stir them up. I'm not calling you a troll, slarti. I've known you for quite a few years now under more than one nic. You're better than that. But only you can know what motivates you on this board.
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Post by slartibartfast on Nov 7, 2015 9:42:56 GMT 10
I help the needy. Those who need religion in their life to cling onto some faint hope that there is some "being" watching us and controlling what happens in the world and after we die clearly need help.
I am a distributing arm of common sense.
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Post by pim on Nov 7, 2015 10:26:55 GMT 10
Ah so you're a missionary! When I said you paleo's of both the atheist and the god-bothering type have a lot in common I was right wasn't I!  |
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Post by slartibartfast on Nov 7, 2015 10:30:49 GMT 10
Exactly, you don't have to be religious to help the needy, especially as they are the ones most in need of help.
I'm just glad I can oblige and help to make the world a better place without the constraints of religion.
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Post by pim on Nov 7, 2015 15:41:18 GMT 10
If the "needy" don't feel the need of what you're peddling, and you insist on forcing it down their throats while at the same time insulting and belittling them for being obstinate in clinging to the snake oil you claim they're in need of rejecting in favour of your particular snake oil, then you're no better than the missionaries who'd go preaching to the "natives" at the same time telling them that their ancestral animist practices are "evil" and threatening them with hellfire.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Nov 8, 2015 2:28:07 GMT 10
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Post by slartibartfast on Nov 8, 2015 17:35:39 GMT 10
And just how many Atheists have knocked on your door? |
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Post by pim on Nov 8, 2015 20:48:07 GMT 10
Occam and slarti on that point I don't understand why some outfit that purports to "represent" atheists was invited to a "Tolerance in Religion" conference sponsored by the Australian Attorney-General in the Turnbull Government, George Brandis. Hell, even the Scientologists got an invite to participate. The Scientologists FFS! Guess who wasn't invited: the Muslims. With about half a million Muslims in Australia I guarantee there's more Muslims than Scientologists. But who says that atheists are a generic group that have so much in common that they can constitute themselves into some sort of peakbody that claims to represent people like yourself? Dunno what they call themselves: NAAW perhaps? National Association of Atheist Wankers? Buggered if I know! But clearly if a bunch of nerds who fancy themselves as atheists have managed to convince the Turnbull Government that they are representative of Australian atheists then they could only have got to that point through activism and proselytising. Furthermore if they end up being invited to a government-sponsored national talkfest on religion, that only gives credence to Jody's claim (a claim which, BTW, I dispute and disagree with) that atheism is just another religion.
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Post by pim on Nov 8, 2015 21:08:31 GMT 10
Sorry if I got the name of the wankfest wrong. I think it might be called a Freedom of Religion conference. A minor point. Apparently the Buddhists and the Hindus are there, and the Jews. The fact that they invited the Scientologists, a bunch of spivs who've created a business model that masquerades as a religion in order to wage some sort of political battle against psychiatry and psychology and fights legal battle after legal battle to get itself registered as a religion in order to take advantage of the tax breaks, immediately condemns the gathering as a wankfest. And finally to exclude the Muslims, a religion which more than any other religion in Australia right now is a target of intolerance, hatred and vilification, reveals the agenda of this government when it comes to religious "tolerance". There's also the spiritual traditions of Australia's First Peoples. Apparently they're not represented. But I repeat, what the bloody hell are the atheists doing there and how do they represent you? Snubbed Muslims respond to Freedom Boy’s religious freedom shindigwww.crikey.com.au/2015/11/06/snubbed-muslims-respond-to-freedom-boys-religious-freedom-shindig/Muslims and Aboriginal groups felt screwed by the AHRC’s Religious Freedom Roundtable (AHRC = Australian Human Rights Commission). Key Muslim-Australian organisations who weren’t invited to yesterday’s Australian Human Rights Commission round table discussion on freedom of religion, convened by Human Rights Commissioner Tim Wilson, have criticised the process, saying “it was not a sincere consultation”, and that inclusion of Muslims in such a process should be a “no-brainer”. Although the United Muslim Women Association was listed as being one of the participants, its head, Maha Abdo, was at the Federation of Ethnic Communities National Conference in Sydney yesterday. AHRC spokesperson Dominic O’Grady said Abdo had been a late apology yesterday morning but that a representative at the office of the Grand Mufti of Australia had attended. The Religious Freedom Roundtable convened to discuss advancing religious freedom in Australia effectively, and addressed issues such as the preservation of religious freedom. Participants were also asked to consider strategies to support religious inclusion and social cohesion. The 20 or so participants at the event, which was closed to the public, included representatives from the Anglican Church, the Catholic Archdiocese of Sydney, two rabbinical peak bodies, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Sikhs, Buddhists and other faiths, as well as a representative of the atheist association  and a representative of the Church of Scientology. Crikey contacted some of the leading Muslim organisations to see if they had received an invitation. The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils (Muslims Australia), the Islamic Research and Educational Association, the Lebanese Muslims Association, the High Islamic Council of Australia (Darulfatwa) and the Islamic Council of Victoria all said they were not aware of, or invited to, the event. Muslims Australia spokesperson Wasim Raza said the group would have liked to have been invited: “Being a religious organisation, if there is somewhere to have a say in the religion and give our opinion and listen to other’s opinions especially.” In response to Crikey’s queries as to why Muslim groups were not invited, O’Grady said that the invitations had been based on census numbers for each faith. Yet most recent 2011 ABS data on religion showed Muslims in Australia number about 476,000, putting them far ahead of groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists — with most recent data from 2006 putting them at 55,000 — and of the Jewish faith (at 97,000), which had two representatives. The AHRC would not confirm which groups had been invited, and which had petitioned to be included. Islamic Council of Victoria secretary Kuranda Seyfi Seyit said that he did not believe the round table was “a sincere consultation”. He said the organisation had been aware of the event, but was not invited to attend — and did not ask to. “My personal feeling is that this … will have no impact on the current situation facing Australian Muslims who are being vilified on a daily basis while the government and the commission do very little to alleviate the problem.” Seyit slammed the decision not to invite the group. “As the peak body for Islam in Victoria with 47 member organisations and the fact that we are doing work in this area, it’s a no-brainer, however, lack of sincerity is the key problem. I can’t see how we can come up with solutions if there is no genuine dialogue to tackle the problem together.” The Muslim Lebanese Association said the first it had heard of the event was when members read about it online on Wednesday and were “disappointed at the lack of engagement with wider Australian Muslim groups … It is imperative a discussion is had on the reinforcement of religious freedoms in this country, and we implore the commissioner to seek more accurate Muslim representation for discussions on such an important topic.” The IREA, an apolitical organisation mostly involved in interfaith activities and proselytisation, also noted its members were not invited and further condemned the absence of anyone representing Aboriginal spirituality. “We also find it disturbing that no Aboriginal spiritual representation was invited, at a time when their religious freedom is under threat. In 2012, OM Mining destroyed a site sacred to the Warramunga people, a rock formation of the Dreamtime spirits Bilgara and Kaladaku. So why Christian organisations and Scientologists are given priority at a round table on religious freedom, to talk about same-sex marriage, over Muslims and Aboriginals, is beyond us.” Despite being closed to the public so as to maximise freedom, reports of the event have leaked out — in particular, a bizarre outburst by Attorney-General and ex-arts minister George Brandis, who reportedly said that former prime minister Tony Abbott had been subjected to bigotry from “pseudo-intellectuals” due to his religious beliefs and that “members of Christian faiths, in particularly Catholic faith, are routinely the subject of mockery and insult by prominent writers and commentators”. There was no clarification from Brandis, who attested last year that “people had the right to be bigots”, as to why mockery and insult represented a challenge to religious freedom. The AHRC will have two more discussion days on religious freedom in 2016, as part of that process, one featuring non-faith groups, and the last focusing on LGBTIQ community representatives. Muslim groups will get no further opportunity to make their views directly known in the process, before it concludes in 2016. |
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Post by pim on Nov 9, 2015 9:57:35 GMT 10
So they're carpetbaggers, using atheism to bury their snouts in the taxpayer trough. Which makes them no different from the other religious carpetbaggers. I do have to make a correction, though. I misrepresented George Brandis. Not deliberately. Lord knows there's enough valid stuff to criticise the guy on without having to misrepresent him. He didn't organise the talkfest. Tim Wilson did. He's aka Freedom Boy and it's not meant as a compliment. Wilson was appointed to head up the AHRC by Abbott and he comes out of a very right wing outfit called the Institute of Public Affairs www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2014/05/31/abbotts-faceless-men-the-ipa/1401458400 It would have been Wilson who invited the Scientologists and the "atheists" and snubbed the Muslims and the Aborigines. |
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Post by pim on Nov 9, 2015 10:05:51 GMT 10
The token "atheist" at the wankfest
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Post by pim on Nov 9, 2015 10:08:11 GMT 10
I should have used the singular pronoun, sorry. It's just that there isn't a non gender-specific third person singular pronoun in English. So often what happens is that you use the 3rd person plural "they".
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Post by Occam's Spork on Nov 9, 2015 10:20:16 GMT 10
Pim, it's not enough for these particular atheists to simply be content in their non-belief; their cognitive insecurities demand that everyone within agree with them.
If one resists, ridicule is their reward.
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Post by slartibartfast on Nov 9, 2015 12:26:51 GMT 10
Pim, it's not enough for these particular atheists to simply be content in their non-belief; their cognitive insecurities demand that everyone within agree with them. If one resists, ridicule is their reward. Demand? Name an Atheist who has demanded that others agree with him or her. The bible on the other hand is full of demands, is it not? |
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Post by slartibartfast on Nov 9, 2015 13:25:37 GMT 10
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Post by pim on Nov 9, 2015 17:55:16 GMT 10
The token "atheist" at the wankfest Well, if you consider having a free Iced VoVo or Butternut Snap as having their snouts in the taxpayer trough ...  I'm sorry?? Mate I lived in Canberra for more than 30 years and worked for the government. If you're invited to participate in a taxpayer-sponsored talkfest you do a tad better than a free iced VoVo or Butternut Snap. Given this wankfest was to feed into national policy you'd have things like travel allowance, accommodation in a nice hotel ... and as for the food, particularly at that sort of wankfest it would have had to be culture-specific and in particular religion-specific so the catering would have been meticulously done. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on Nov 14, 2015 11:24:35 GMT 10
Demand? Name an Atheist who has demanded that others agree with him or her. The bible on the other hand is full of demands, is it not? That's your take away from all of this? My use of the word 'demand? Christians are motivated to prosthelytize due to their belief in eternal consequences. For an atheist, there can be no such motivation. So the question is, why are you so insistent that everyone agree with you? Your 'advice', doesn't hold any real consequence for me. And your decision to 'convert' me to your worldview depends ENTIRELY on your personal prejudices, and your perception on what 'ought ' to make one happy. ...But what happens if I'm already happy without your atheistic mindset? What happens then? |
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and a representative of the Church of Scientology. Crikey contacted some of the leading Muslim organisations to see if they had received an invitation. The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils (Muslims Australia), the Islamic Research and Educational Association, the Lebanese Muslims Association, the High Islamic Council of Australia (Darulfatwa) and the Islamic Council of Victoria all said they were not aware of, or invited to, the event. Muslims Australia spokesperson Wasim Raza said the group would have liked to have been invited: “Being a religious organisation, if there is somewhere to have a say in the religion and give our opinion and listen to other’s opinions especially.” In response to Crikey’s queries as to why Muslim groups were not invited, O’Grady said that the invitations had been based on census numbers for each faith. Yet most recent 2011 ABS data on religion showed Muslims in Australia number about 476,000, putting them far ahead of groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists — with most recent data from 2006 putting them at 55,000 — and of the Jewish faith (at 97,000), which had two representatives. The AHRC would not confirm which groups had been invited, and which had petitioned to be included.
