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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 11:32:31 GMT 10
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100185609/you-thought-the-whole-eussr-thing-was-over-the-top-have-a-look-at-this-poster/You thought the whole 'EUSSR' thing was over the top? Have a look at this poster By Daniel Hannan Politics Last updated: October 19th, 2012 1109 Comments Comment on this article I used to find the EUSSR trope tedious, but now…  Take a close look at this promotional poster. Notice anything? Alongside the symbols of Christianity, Judaism, Jainism and so on is one of the wickedest emblems humanity has conceived: the hammer and sickle. For three generations, the badge of the Soviet revolution meant poverty, slavery, torture and death. It adorned the caps of the chekas who came in the night. It opened and closed the propaganda films which hid the famines. It advertised the people's courts where victims of purges and show-trials were condemned. It fluttered over the re-education camps and the gulags. For hundreds of millions of Europeans, it was a symbol of foreign occupation. Hungary, Lithuania and Moldova have banned its use, and various former communist countries want it to be treated in the same way as Nazi insignia.Yet here it sits on a poster in the European Commission, advertising the moral deafness of its author (I hope that's what it is, rather than lingering nostalgia). The Bolshevist sigil celebrates the ideology which, in strict numerical terms, must be reckoned the most murderous ever devised by our species. That it can be passed unremarked day after day in the corridors of Brussels is nauseating.
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Post by pim on Oct 26, 2012 13:10:11 GMT 10
Ho hum, what a beat-up. Slow news day for you?  |
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Post by garfield on Oct 26, 2012 17:46:38 GMT 10
May as well just put dicks and vaginas on the poster cos the EU is f#cked! ;D
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Post by slartibartfast on Oct 26, 2012 22:48:56 GMT 10
What a great symbol of many peoples coming together!
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Post by matt on Oct 27, 2012 0:10:04 GMT 10
The European Union wonders why they have an economic crisis on their hands. We only have to look at North Korea and Cuba as fine examples of communism to see what a failure of an economic model it is.
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Post by spindrift on Oct 27, 2012 6:43:03 GMT 10
Wouldn't expect truth to be espoused by a conservative journo...
"This is not an EU poster - it was prepared as part of a competition set up by the Czech Council on Foreign Relations, an organisation by the way created by one of CZ's most famous anti-regime dissidents, who became Foreign Minster under democracy: the late Jiøí Dienstbier."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2012 7:52:06 GMT 10
Wouldn't expect truth to be espoused by a conservative journo... "This is not an EU poster - it was prepared as part of a competition set up by the Czech Council on Foreign Relations, an organisation by the way created by one of CZ's most famous anti-regime dissidents, who became Foreign Minster under democracy: the late Jiøí Dienstbier." ROFLMAO....so Altair and Garfield have made complete & utter dicks of themselves yet again?       |
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Post by matt on Oct 27, 2012 17:43:18 GMT 10
Communism is never a solution.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2012 12:18:26 GMT 10
Communism is never a solution. Jesus was a communist. Really? Lenin said the basis of communism was hatred and that we should teach our children to hate. ( Hate crimes ? LOL ) Jesus never taught hate like Lenin nor did Jesus organise genocide like Lenin. With your such patently flawed theology I can understand you being a failed Christian. |
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Post by pim on Oct 28, 2012 13:49:14 GMT 10
"... not to understand"
Beware the dreaded split infinitive!
You're both wrong. Jesus didn't have a political program for this world. In fact he said explicitly "My kingdom is not of this world". As far as politics went in the world in which he lived Jesus said "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's".
Today that's seen - rightly - as a sensible pragmatic accommodation by mainstream Christianity to the realm of modern secular politics. But then these days we don't declare democratically elected political leaders to be gods and require people to perform regular ritualistic acts acknowledging the head of government's divinity. The Romans, on the other hand, did - and that was a problem.
The problem came with the increasing practice of deifying Roman Emperors with the result that the Romans conflated the two realms that Jesus had said were separate. It was a recipe for trouble.
As for Lenin, he didn't base his political philosophy on "hate". Gawd strewth Skippy you come out with a lot of boring tendentious bullshit. Give us a break with it, willya?? And no I'm not saying that Lenin was a kindly soul who wouldn't hurt a fly and nor am I saying that he was a paragon of democracy. He was a major figure in Russian political history and probably wasn't as bad as Stalin - who followed him and whom in fact he had warned against. If you look at the major figures going back to Ivan the Terrible, I'd say Ivan probably stands in the same continuum as Stalin. Certainly their periods are notable for the piles of corpses. Maybe Lenin wasn't quite in that league which probably means the pile of corpses might have been a smidgin smaller. Mind you I wouldn't put Lenin in the same class as Peter the Great who was probably to the late 1600s what Gorbachev was to the late 1900s. No, I wouldn't say that Lenin was in that class. More of a thug who lived in thuggish times that were pretty chaotic.
Lenin isn;t the "father" of communism. That accolade belongs to Marx. If you want to put it into religious terms - and I'm not going to be blasphemous and compare Jesus to Marx - but Lenin is more a "Paul" figure in that while Marx wrote "Capital" (an enormous tome which I haven;t read and I bet you haven't either) and a pamphlet-sized polemic "The Communist Manifesto" which I have read and I dunno if you have, Lenin is best known for a tract called "What is to be done". He was about putting it all into practice and building a vanguard party.
No he was no democrat and yes they were tumultuous times with atrocities on both sides - the Whites as well as the Reds - and "hate" wasn't in short supply. But to present an "argument", if you can (laughingly) call it that, that Lenin based his political philosophy and movement on "hate" is to demonstrate the crassest ignorance.
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Post by pim on Oct 28, 2012 15:50:25 GMT 10
No argument about Stalin, he was Darth Vader on steroids; he was Ivan the Terrible with tanks, he was Vlad the Impaler with machine guns.
Yeah, I know, Vlad was a Romanian and not a Russian. He was a very bad guy. He was so bad he's called the original Dracula. Apparently Prince Charles has claimed him as an ancestor!! Skippy would like him because the people Vlad impaled tended to be Muslims, and it's OK to practise hideous atrocities on Muslims, innit Skip!!
I'm not trying to say that Lenin was a good guy. What surprises me is that the German officers assigned to escort Lenin on the sealed train through WW1 Germany from Switzerland to Russia in 1917 didn't put a bullet in him when they had the chance. If he was evil then clearly the Kaiser-loving Krauts wanted to insert this venemous scorpion into the Russia of the Kaiser's first cousin, the Czar, so they have to bear some of the responsibility.
As for communism, that debate died with the Cold War. Nobody seriously tries to argue in favour of communism. It's over. Capitalism won. Everybody's a capitalist these days. Hell, even the bloody communists are capitalists these days. Look at the Chinese! And if they're not capitalists then they've degenerated into Vlad the Impaler-type absolute hereditary monarchs like that Kim Jong-Un character in North Korea who deals with people he doesn't like by blowing them up or shooting them. The only people for whom this "debate" still has any meaning is in the fevered conspiracy-theory addled brains of people like Skippy and Garfield who are so jaded that outmoded Cold War terminology about "lefties" is all they've got.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2012 16:34:32 GMT 10
Exactly he has missed the point ( not surprisingly).
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Post by pim on Oct 28, 2012 16:35:19 GMT 10
you have missed the point the symbol of the hammer and sickle is as evil as the swashtika I am a close relative of Bruce Lockhart who was the British consul imprisoned in the Kremlin for the "Lockhart Plot" when Lenin got shot in the head. Lenin didn't die of gunshot wounds. Please let's not get into hairsplitting casuistry about whether it was syphilis or a series of strokes. I don't really care. What I do know is that he died in his bed in 1923 after a long and debilitating illness, that he did warn against Stalin, and that the rest of the 1920s saw the long struggle between Stalin and the Left Opposition led by Trotsky, which Stalin won. It's all in Isaac Deutscher's masterful trilogy on Trotsky: The Prophet Armed, the Prophet Unarmed and The Prophet Outcast as well as Deutscher's biography called simple Stalin. They're published by Cambridge University Press and are considered standard works on the topic. I read them all years ago and have them on my bookshelves. I can only repeat, you'll get no argument from me about Stalin - or about Communism. But Lenin was Skippy's point, and it was that point that I was responding to. |
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Post by pim on Oct 28, 2012 17:13:22 GMT 10
No argument
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2012 17:44:17 GMT 10
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Post by slartibartfast on Oct 28, 2012 17:54:20 GMT 10
"EU shamefully puts communist symbol on poster!"
When are you going to apologise for your porky pie?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2012 18:10:03 GMT 10
Shooting the messenger because your sacred tenets exposed?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2012 18:28:58 GMT 10
Really? Lenin said the basis of communism was hatred and that we should teach our children to hate. ( Hate crimes ? LOL ) Jesus never taught hate like Lenin nor did Jesus organise genocide like Lenin. With your such patently flawed theology I can understand you being a failed Christian. Communism is personified by Jesus. Not political communism, but communism in its "purest" form. The sharing of everything among all. It's OK Skippy, no one here expects you to understand. Indeed, the converse is true: everyone here expects you to not understand.  Utter croc. Nowhere does Jesus say that individual enterprise should not be rewarded or that private property is wrong. Jesus did not teach that social justice was achieved by joint ownership of production , distribution and exchange. That is nothing but left wing drivel. |
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Post by slartibartfast on Oct 28, 2012 18:46:09 GMT 10
"EU shamefully puts communist symbol on poster!" When are you going to apologise for your porky pie? Shooting the messenger because your sacred tenets exposed? Huh? It wasn't the EU! You lied! No messengers were harmed in this post. |
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Post by spindrift on Oct 28, 2012 18:49:41 GMT 10
Jesus in teh bible stated that if someone claims you owe them money...then you will give them twice what they asked...nor was he big on usory and taxes, the christian philosophy was on giving.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2012 22:42:42 GMT 10
Jesus in teh bible stated that if someone claims you owe them money...then you will give them twice what they asked...nor was he big on usory and taxes, the christian philosophy was on giving. The Christian philosophy nowhere denigrates private property, creativity or reward. There were several biblical characters eg Job, Lot etc who were wealthy and this was not condemned by God. Was is of concern is how is the money/wealth was obtained, your attitude towards it and it's use/place in your life. |
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Post by pim on Oct 28, 2012 22:47:33 GMT 10
Mark 10:25
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2012 0:02:19 GMT 10
Look at the context and story of the verse Pim rather than cherry pick.
Besides what do you care about bible verses. Do you concern yourself with those verses that say homosexuality is wrong? Didnt think so.
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