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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 23:46:53 GMT 10
Jesus is simply beautiful, and no one can remake Jesus. The Catholics love to build statues, and some people love to draw images of Jesus.
The reality is that Jesus is not a figure, Jesus is all encompassing, Jesus is total and His love universal.
When you accept Jesus, you can physically feel His love, grace and compassion.
Lets give all the glory to JESUS!
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 0:03:15 GMT 10
How could anyone reject this free gift from Jesus? It is FREE and without cost!
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 3:40:27 GMT 10
Jesus is simply beautiful, and no one can remake Jesus. The Catholics love to build statues, and some people love to draw images of Jesus. The reality is that Jesus is not a figure, Jesus is all encompassing, Jesus is total and His love universal. When you accept Jesus, you can physically feel His love, grace and compassion. Lets give all the glory to JESUS! How could anyone reject this free gift from Jesus? It is FREE and without cost!
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Post by slartibartfast on May 9, 2013 7:22:01 GMT 10
Can we have a day without this spam?
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Post by fat on May 9, 2013 8:50:48 GMT 10
Jesus wasn't beautiful. Isaiah 53 from your King James
he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
or in easier to understand English He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. 3 He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
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Post by pim on May 9, 2013 10:30:43 GMT 10
I prefer the King James version:
He was despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief
I could never imagine the modern version being set to music in the same way that Handel set the KJV to music such as in this version sung by a male counter tenor. It was probably originally scored by Handel back in the 1700s for a castrato. In any case it sounds much better sung by a male counter tenor than by a female soprano.
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Post by pim on May 9, 2013 10:39:27 GMT 10
I don't know why it sometimes happens that a link doesn't appear as a link when you post it. But what I posted in #5 is the link to that rendition of the aria He was despisèd from Handel's Messiah. The counter tenor is Alfred Deller. There is another version, this time sung by a soprano, the late (and great!) Kathleen Ferrier. I'm sure there also exists, if you look for it, a version of that aria sung by Joan Sutherland as a young soprano. Great as Ferrier and Sutherland were - and there's no doubt that both of them possessed The Voice!! - it still sounds better with a good counter tenor. Today that would be Andreas Scholl but I'm not certain he's ever sung that aria.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 10:58:31 GMT 10
I don't know why it sometimes happens that a link doesn't appear as a link when you post it. But what I posted in #5 is the link to that rendition of the aria He was despisèd from Handel's Messiah. The counter tenor is Alfred Deller. There is another version, this time sung by a soprano, the late (and great!) Kathleen Ferrier. I'm sure there also exists, if you look for it, a version of that aria sung by Joan Sutherland as a young soprano. Great as Ferrier and Sutherland were - and there's no doubt that both of them possessed The Voice!! - it still sounds better with a good counter tenor. Today that would be Andreas Scholl but I'm not certain he's ever sung that aria. A couple of things.
Firstly, you need to remove the s from https if you post a URL into an open messageboard forum.
Secondly, if you wish it to appear as a hotlink, you need to encode it as a hotlink. That means using BB code in the case of this ProBoards-hosted group. However, if this group was a SMF-hosted group, it would altomatically be encoded as a hotlink.
To encode it as a hotlink, you need to use the [ url= BB code, followed by the actual url, then followed by ] - you then insert the url again, followed by the disestabishment code, which is [ /url ] (but remove the spaces which I have put there so it will display).
Easy peasy.
However, you can take it further and use YouTube formatting code (see the toolbox which appears when you click on the Reply button) and put the YouTube clip url between the establishment and the disestablishment code. Don't forget to remove the S from https as you do it. And remove any other garbage from the URL as well or it won't embed into the message.
So if I take your URL and remove the S from https and frame it with establishment and disestablishment code, you get the following....
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 11:03:42 GMT 10
BTW, I have played in three performances of Handel's Messiah, although it was decades ago.
I twice played continuo keyboards (both harpsichord and chamber organ) with an orchestra accompanying the Messiah, both times in Hawke's Bay.
On the third occasion, I was the sole accompanist of the singers, playing the organ in a performance of The Messiah in Wellington Town Hall. And that third occasion was a performance of the ENTIRE Messiah, with no parts left out, as is the usual practise.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 11:06:36 GMT 10
I'm sure there also exists, if you look for it, a version of that aria sung by Joan Sutherland as a young soprano. My late Dad had a recording of that performance of The Messiah featuring Joan Sutherland. I'm not sure what happened to it though, as my sister disposed of his LPs when we were clearing out the house after Mum died a few months after Dad.
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Post by pim on May 9, 2013 13:32:09 GMT 10
Nope! Not happening! I wonder what I'm doing wrong ... Thanks for your advice, KTJ, I'll continue to rely on your mentoring. I recall giving my parents a gift of the set of LPs of that performance of the Messiah with Sutherland singing the soprano solo part when I was 17. That would have been in 1964! Who was the conductor?? Trying to think ... it might have been Adrian Boult. I'm pretty sure it was the London Philharmonic Orchestra & choir. Those were the days, eh? If you liked classical music you bought it on 33' LP records. Strewth they were still making and selling 78's back then! Like in your case, my sister cleaned out all of my parents' "stuff" after my mum passed away - my dad passed away first. I never found out what happened to that set of 33s of the Messiah. I do know my mum liked them a lot and looked after them. They were in good condition. It was the Messiah that brought my parents together: they were both in a choir in Amsterdam in the mid 1930s that was rehearsing the Messiah. My dad sang baritone and my mum was a mezzo soprano. So they'd always considered the Messiah as a rather special piece of music.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 14:00:22 GMT 10
fuck not hard.
you put the youtube tags on both sides of the link, the opening one does not have a forward slash, the other does!
OR, just highlight the link and push the YOUTUBE icon... very simple.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 15:05:31 GMT 10
You need some really top-notch headphones plugged into your computer to appreciate this. It was recorded on the celebrated 19th-century French organ-builder Aristide Cavaillé-Coll's final great masterpiece: the grand organ at Saint Ouen in Rouen, Normandy. Pierre Labric plays the amazing transcription for organ by Jeanne Demessieux of Franz Liszt's piano work Funérailles (Harmonies poétiques et religieuses, S.173 No.7). The soundstage is HUGE and includes the magnificent Bombarde chorus which is a feature of this organ. The 32-foot and 16-foot Bombarde ranks will really give your headphones a workout. This was recorded in 1990.
This is way better than what is on that garbage video clip posted by Matty-boy, which is mere unsophisticated fluff by comparison with the Liszt.
(BTW....crank up the volume, but be prepared to be buried in a wall of sound at bar 80 on the musical score)
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 17:18:56 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 19:09:17 GMT 10
BTW.....in case you're wondering, that last video was recorded in the Netherlands.
Olivier Latry is the Titulaire Organist at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, as well as being the Professor of Organ Studies at the Paris Conservatory of Music. Shin-Young Lee is his wife, and a former star pupil of his at the Conservatory.
Last year, they performed that arrangement for organ of Stravinsky's "Rites of Spring" in Wellington, at the Anglican Cathedral of St Paul. It was absolutely some of the most virtuoso keyboard playing I have ever witnessed. The night before that concert, Oliver Latry had played with the NZ Symphony Orchestra in Wellington Town Hall.
He has just finished a concert tour of the eastern states of Australia. Prior to his Australian tour, he was in NZ inaugurating the huge new organ in St John's Anglican Cathedral in Napier. Their new organ (which also incorporates most of the pipework of the former organ in the cathedral) is now the largest cathedral organ in NZ, and is exceeded in size only by the organs in the Auckland and Dunedin town halls.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 19:21:07 GMT 10
Just for you, Pim....some Bach.
And it features an Alto too; you'd probably call him a counter-tenor rather than an alto, which was the preferred term back in Bach's day.
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Post by pim on May 9, 2013 19:37:42 GMT 10
Thank you Matt, your advice was graceless and club-footed, but effective.
Have you listened to it? Do you read music? The Messiah is Handel's setting of verses of the Bible to music.
The King, George III attended the world première in Dublin on 13 April 1742. Apparently His Maj was so spellbound by the music that when it came to the "Hallelujah Chorus" he surged to his feet and remained standing. So to this day the custom among concert goers at a performance of the Messiah is to stand during the Hallelujah Chorus.
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Post by pim on May 9, 2013 19:48:10 GMT 10
Thank you KTJ. I'm listening to it now. I only had to hear the first couple of bars and I knew it was the Cantata Christ lag in Todesbanden or "Christ lay in the bonds of Death". It's a cantata for Easter Saturday. It's one of my favourites.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2013 20:50:58 GMT 10
Jesus is simply beautiful, and no one can remake Jesus. The Catholics love to build statues, and some people love to draw images of Jesus. The reality is that Jesus is not a figure, Jesus is all encompassing, Jesus is total and His love universal. When you accept Jesus, you can physically feel His love, grace and compassion. Lets give all the glory to JESUS! The reality is Jesus is an archetype in the Hero's Journey and never existed in real life. There is an absence of evidence for his existence and that means because he is not mentioned by any first century writer or historian, nor any part of that absurd story, that it is completely false and Jesus is false.
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 10, 2013 21:58:04 GMT 10
Rubbish.
Thallus writing around 52 A.D. argued that the abnormal darkness alleged to have accompanied the death of Christ was a purely natural phenomenon and coincidence (a fragment preserved by Julius Africanus). See Mark 15:33 Mara Bar-Serapion writing around 73 A.D. was writing to his son from prison and mentions some historical men Socrates, Pythagoras and Christ. “… What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? … What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? …What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? …Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given.” (manuscript in the British Musem). (Please note that the date of this writing is in question and could have been written as late as the third century.) Cornelius Tacitus writing around 112 A.D. was considered one the greatest historians of Rome. He wrote about the reign of Nero (54-56 A.D.) and how he used the Christians as scapegoats for the great fire of 64A.D. It had been rumored that Nero started the fire in order to gain glory by rebuilding the city. Cornelius says, “ Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had it origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus…” Pliny the younger writing around 112 A.D. wrote a letter to the Emperor Tragan telling him information he extracted from Christians by torture. “They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light when the sang an anthem to Christ as God, and bound themselves by a solemn oath not to commit any wicked deeds. Suetonius writing around 120 A.D. he wrote about the life of Claudius and how expelled all the Jews from Rome by Imperial decree. “As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome.” See Acts 18:1-2.
There is also evidence from 2 Jewish sources.
The Talmud (Jewish writings between 70 and 200 A.D.) contains many references to Christ. All of these references are hostile to the cause of Christ, but they help establish the existence of Jesus. According to these writings Jesus of Nazareth was a transgressor in Israel who practiced magic, scorned the words of the wise, led the people astray, and said he had not come to destroy the law but to add to it. See Mat. 5:17ff. Flavius Josephus (Sometime after 70 A.D.) not only writes about Jesus he also writes about many of the people we learn about in the Word of God such as Pilate, Quirinius of Syria, the Caesars, the Herods, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, Annas, Caiaphas, Felix, Festus, Jesus brother James, and of John the Baptist death.
And then there are the Gospels. Written approximately between 45 – 96 A.D. It has around 5,000 manuscripts in whole or in part. This does not include the fragments or numerous quotes of these documents from early Christian writers. The oldest manuscripts are dated at 350 A.D. with only about a 250 year gap from the original.
If you consider the other ancient manuscripts that we still consider reliable, this isn't much of an issue:
Caesar’s Gallic Wars (58- 50 B.C.) has only 9 or 10 good manuscripts. The oldest manuscript 9th century 800 year gap from original
The Roman History of Livy (59 B.C.) has only 35 manuscripts. The oldest manuscript is from the 4th century 300 year gap from original
Histories of Tacitus (100 - 115 A.D.) Only has 2 manuscripts. Oldest manuscript is from the 9th century 800 year gap from original
The Annals of Tacitus (100 A.D.) has only 12 manuscripts, The oldest manuscript is 900 years from original
The History of Thucydides, only 8 manuscripts. The oldest manuscript 1300 years from original.
If the New Testament was a secular writing scholars would deem it as one the most reliable and accurate documents in existence. But, since it involves miracles and the existence of God they question its validity even though it has less of a gap in years from the original and has thousands more copies than the classical histories which they consider accurate.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2013 22:16:55 GMT 10
interpolations
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 10, 2013 22:18:28 GMT 10
Just a handy word you throw out without evidence. If you are going to call someone a liar, you kinda need evidence for that.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2013 22:23:17 GMT 10
Josephus is an interpolation as is Tacitus
There is no dependent account of any of that stupid Zombie story
But as you are deluded - its a waste of time communicating with you because you are a mental patient.
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 10, 2013 23:03:31 GMT 10
"Most modern scholars consider the passage to be authentic." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ#Specific_referencesSo yeah, your skeptic claims come from a fringe source. --The same types of people who'd deny the lunar landing. "The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to Christian interpolation."en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_JesusIWO: the reference to Jesus was never thought to be an interpolation, only the claims about Jesus were. So there is your first century reference to Christ.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 12:24:37 GMT 10
no it isn't its an interpolation by Eusebius. it is not authentic and the first time it was ever quoted was by Eusebius. The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus with a reference to the execution of Jesus by Pilate which was then subject to Christian interpolation.[13][14][15][16][17][18] Although the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear[19] there is broad consensus as to what the original text of the Testimonium by Josephus would have looked like.[17] The references found in Antiquities have no parallel texts in the other work by Josephus such as the Jewish War, written 20 years earlier, but some scholars have provided explanations for their absence.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_JesusIts all horseshit - more lies told by religious cranks
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