This evening in NZ's Parliament ....

[Deleted]

Gay couples counting down to full equality

By KERRY MCBRIDE - The Dominion Post | 5:00AM - Wednesday, 17 April 2013


MAKING IT LEGAL, AGAIN: Tania Penafiel Bermudez and
Sonja Fry had a civil union three years ago but will be
trading it in for a marriage certificate if the bill
passes today. — ROSS GIBLIN/Fairfax NZ.

SONJA FRY and TANIA PENAFIEL BERMUDEZ admit they will be "pretty emotional" tonight as the marriage equality bill looks set to become law.

Labour MP Louisa Wall's Marriage (Definition of Marriage) Amendment Bill is scheduled to have its third reading in the House tonight, and is expected to pass comfortably.

If so, it would make New Zealand the 13th country worldwide, and first in the Asia-Pacific region, to legalise same-sex marriage.

Ms Fry and Ms Bermudez, of Lower Hutt, had a civil union in 2010, but are looking forward to getting married once it becomes legal.

"Tania's already my wife and in our eyes we're already married, but we'll finally be able to put it on paper," Ms Fry said. "A civil union is not quite as good as a marriage but we thought we'd go for it anyway."

While the pair were not planning to have a full ceremony again, it would be a great chance to get their friends and family together to "celebrate equality".


ABOUT TIME: John Jolliff, left, and Des Smith, the first Kiwi gay couple to have a civil union, are
excited about the marriage equality bill’s third reading. — KENT BLECHYNDEN/Fairfax NZ.

John Jolliff and Des Smith were the first homosexual couple recognised when civil unions were introduced in 2005, but marriage remains their aim.

At present, queer couples were second-class citizens under the law, Mr Jolliff, 83, said.

"No marriages are going to fall apart as a result of our relationship finally being recognised. I just don't understand why it has taken so long."

Mr Smith, 73, said that, if another generation could benefit from marriage equality, it was worth doing.

"There are young people who are struggling, getting booted out of their families, facing bullying. This will be another breakthrough and another slap in the face for those who can't see that a gay relationship is just as valuable as any other."

They would trade in their civil union for a marriage, with a party an essential part of the upgrade, he said.

"I like parties. And this will be another reason for a good party. After all, we're not getting any younger."

St Andrew's on the Terrace senior minister Rev Dr Margaret Mayman, who has performed civil unions since they became legal, was excited at the prospect of extending marriage ceremonies to all.

"On social media and in other circles there's a huge feeling of anticipation, and a feeling that there's a real sea-change about to happen."

She has reserved a spot in the public gallery to watch the vote tonight, but others hoping to score a place will be out of luck — the gallery was booked out well ahead of time. It was also full for both the first and second readings of the bill.

"I've been there for both the other readings," Ms Mayman said. "I think it will be quite a special moment to experience."

The bill passed its committee stage by 77 votes to 43 last month.

If it becomes law, officials will have four months to get paperwork in order, meaning the first same-sex marriage could take place around mid-August.

The Department of Internal Affairs has also confirmed that "bride" and "bridegroom" would remain on marriage forms if the law passed. Additional options were being investigated and would be decided on by the Cabinet if and when new forms were produced.

______________________________________

THE NEW WAY

THE MOVES TO DATE:

1986 — Homosexual law reform which decriminalised sexual relations between men.

2001 — The Netherlands become the first country to legalise gay marriage.

2004 — Civil unions law passed here.

2005 — First civil unions take place.

WHAT WILL CHANGE?

Gay couples will be able to say they're married. As marrried couples they will be eligible to adopt children, usually children already being raised by those couples.

There will still be brides and grooms.

Celebrants won't be forced to marry same-sex couples if it is against their beliefs.

Churches won't have to hold marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples if they don't agree with gay marriage.

WHICH CHURCHES SAY ...

WE DO

❏ Certain Presbyterian parishes, including St Andrew's on the Terrace, in Wellington.

❏ Many Buddhist groups.

❏ Quakers.

❏ Progressive Judaism.

WE DON'T

❏ Catholicism.

❏ Anglicanism.

❏ Baptists.

❏ New Zealand Assemblies of God.

❏ Seventh-day Adventists.

❏ Jehovah's Witnesses.

❏ Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons).

❏ Open Brethren.

❏ Sikhism.

❏ Islam.

❏ Hinduism.

❏ Orthodox Judaism.

www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8558572/Gay-couples-counting-down-to-full-equality

---

Opponents unlikely to stop history

By TRACY WATKINS and KATE CHAPMAN - The Dominion Post | 9:02AM - Wednesday, 17 April 2013

THE EMAIL circulated to MPs at the 11th hour thunders: "Come together, hold assembly, you shameless 77 — before you are driven out of office, before the burning anger of the voters overtake you, for the day of reckoning will come for sure, you hollow 77, white washed sepulchres."

As the countdown to the vote nears its final hour, opponents of the Marriage Equality Bill legalising same-sex marriage have made a final assault on MPs inboxes.

But they are unlikely to stop history being made with Parliament expected to back the law change by a big margin tonight.

Parliament's public galleries will be packed for the event and room has been made for overflow in the old legislative chambers where the debate will be shown on a big screen.

Supporters will also squeeze into a number of venues around town to watch the debate live.

The fringes of the debate have turned so ugly at times that even those who oppose the law change admit it was nearly enough to make them change their vote.

Green MP Kevin Hague, who is in a same sex relationship and a leading proponent of the bill, took to circulating the worst emails to media and supporters with a wry note.

He circulated today's "shameless 77" email with the observation: "Perfect summary of the case against the bill".

But it was exactly the sort of debate Wellington Catholic Archbishop John Dew had been hoping to avoid.

For him it was important to express the church's view that marriage should be between one man and one woman for the purposes of procreation.

But he wanted a robust, vigorous and respectful debate.

"We certainly don't espouse to any extremist views," he said.

"From our point of view we do believe that there has been a respectful listening to each other."

However, Dew would have liked more time for the full implications of the move to be considered because "some people would think if it's legal it's moral".

The bill's supporters have included some celebrity couples — including television presenter Tamati Coffey.

Coffey can't be in Parliament this evening as MPs vote on the third reading of Louisa Wall's member's bill to amend the Marriage Act.

But he, and partner Tim Smith, will be watching the action from the United Kingdom, the latest leg of their OE, having a celebratory drink and maybe even doing a spot of wedding planning.

"For me, the change will mean big things," he said.

"Personally, Tim and I are both keen to upgrade our Civil Union to a Marriage Certificate."

And for the wider gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community it meant they could plan for the good times, young people wouldn't have to be ashamed, and they could share in-jokes about the trials and triumphs of "our marriages".

"I feel amazing to be alive at this turning point in New Zealand's history," Coffey said.

"I'm trying to commit to memory all that I can about it, so that I can re-tell the stories to my grandkids."

Meanwhile, Internal Affairs Minister Chris Tremain today reiterated marriage certificates would continue to give people the option of calling themself bride and bride groom.

A draft of the proposed new marriage forms would also allow people to tick a third option: partner.

www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/8560433/Opponents-unlikely-to-stop-history

[Deleted]

Why can't there be a simple we are shacking up together out of love certificate without all the hoopla of marriage..who cares...

[jiribiri]

it will do wonders for the nz tourist industry.

[pim]

Apr 17, 2013 18:03:48 GMT 10 @spindrift111 said:

Why can't there be a simple we are shacking up together out of love certificate without all the hoopla of marriage..who cares...

Who cares? Millions! They care so much that some of them get married again ... and again ... and again ...

[Deleted]

Apr 17, 2013 22:19:05 GMT 10 jiribiri said:

it will do wonders for the nz tourist industry.

It sure will. Kiwis are set to make a lot of money out of Aussie gay couples who wish to get legally married.


• Wave of Aussie gays to tie the knot in NZ


BTW.....the bill was enacted into law last night with 77 MPs voting in favour and 44 MPs voting against.

From the beginning of August, gay marriages will become lawful in NZ.

[garfield]

Still proudly mainstream though d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/thumb.gif [/img]

[Salem]

So when are you going to propose to Mark, KTJ?

[pim]

Salem are those cats gay? Should we call them "poofy" cats?

[Salem]

Nope. They're just good friends. I think.... Lol

[Salem]

Oh come on Garfield. You know like most guys you'd love to see two women going a it.

[Deleted]

It OK Garfy, no one will think worse of you when you finally come out of the closet and bring Matty-Boy with you.

[Deleted]

Once again, a potentially good discussion descends to the gutter...
<sigh!>

[pim]

Apr 19, 2013 7:40:10 GMT 10 @grim said:

Once again, a potentially good discussion descends to the gutter...
<sigh!>

Grim the technique garfield uses is simple: run interference in a given thread by spamming it with outrageous abusive provocative posts with the deliberate aim of being offensive. The objective is to provoke other posters so that the thread becomes about garfield's "fart-in-a-crowded-lift" offensiveness rather than the thread topic.

Easy to do and it works most of the time. Doesn't require much in the way of knowledge or insight or skill.

Low rent stuff, though ... You'll always get a "garfield" on a board like this. He's the garbage that needs to be taken out from time to time.

[Deleted]

For gays its wanting everyone to normalise it....while a live and let live is held by most people, the way it is being rammed down people's throats is a concerning trend in society which is already showing signs of deterioration in social cohesion.

And as such have reservations as to what the future holds in going in this direction...such as teaching kids are being taught homosexual marriage is normal while frowning on hetero marriage. Also the adoption of kids and in vitro fertilisation used as a tool to make families when in normal world this just doesn't happen this way,..... indeed for many being homosexual is merely just being trendy, and one should question whether this is good parenting.

A civil union should have sufficed, because as we can see and has been recognised by most what all this gay trumpeting is doing is driving people into religious schools and ideology that isn't healthy in the long run either...

[Occam's Spork]

Apr 19, 2013 8:01:43 GMT 10 pim said:

Apr 19, 2013 7:40:10 GMT 10 @grim said:

Once again, a potentially good discussion descends to the gutter...
<sigh!>

Grim the technique garfield uses is simple: run interference in a given thread by spamming it with outrageous abusive provocative posts with the deliberate aim of being offensive. The objective is to provoke other posters so that the thread becomes about garfield's "fart-in-a-crowded-lift" offensiveness rather than the thread topic.

Easy to do and it works most of the time. Doesn't require much in the way of knowledge or insight or skill.

Low rent stuff, though ... You'll always get a "garfield" on a board like this. He's the garbage that needs to be taken out from time to time.

That's EXACTLY what a Troll is.

[Salem]

Apr 18, 2013 23:21:55 GMT 10 Gort said:

Apr 18, 2013 23:18:41 GMT 10 @garfield said:

I'm very protective of my arsehole thankyou, unlike you, I dont want some confused homo motherf***er thinking he can stuff his sausage in their and reproduce, thats f***in wacky territory and I'll leave you to it.

Oh, I get it ... you are testing Dib's resolve to take action aren't you Garfield?

Trying to be as offensive as possible.
That's weird of you.

And here we have the culprit, dragging Dib in from completely nowhere, to start an argument. Sorry Dib, but I did read up to my posts, and having read Earl Grey's post, it was a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS attempt at stirring up trouble between Garfield and yourself. You've been manipulated. Sorry, but you were. Maybe Garfield deserved it, but don't think for one moment Phil had the best interests of the board at heart when he orchestrated this. He planned this from the start and goaded you both. You were a pawn.

[Salem]

So, anyway. Did it pass? The bill, in NZ, I mean.

[Deleted]

For gays its wanting everyone to normalise it....
No, it is gays wanting to be recognised that their relationships are equaly valid.

while a live and let live is held by most people, the way it is being rammed down people's throats...
So, campaigning for a human right that is enjoyed by mainstream society is 'ramming'?

is a concerning trend in society which is already showing signs of deterioration in social cohesion.
Then you can't blame that on the campaign for gay marriage. In what way do you believe gay marriage (or 'Equal Love' as is now the catchphrase) will bring about further social decay?

And as such have reservations as to what the future holds in going in this direction...such as teaching kids are being taught homosexual marriage is normal while frowning on hetero marriage.
Who frowns on Hetero marriage? Never heard such thing

Also the adoption of kids and in vitro fertilisation used as a tool to make families when in normal world this just doesn't happen this way,.....
Infertility does not preclude heterosexual couples fom marriage and since the topic is about 'Equal Love' your point is irrelevant

indeed for many being homosexual is merely just being trendy,
Really? putting up with homophobic vitriol for the sake of being trendy?? Who would do that to themselves, honestly?

and one should question whether this is good parenting.
Plenty of straights are lousy parents...shouldn't we be focussing on them?

A civil union should have sufficed,
And in Queensland, many gays were happy with that as a first step, until the incoming Newman government chucked it out as the first thing they did, so no, it will not suffice. No second bests.

because as we can see and has been recognised by most what all this gay trumpeting is doing is driving people into religious schools
and ideology
Seriously? where do you get this from?

that isn't healthy in the long run either...
At least we agree on that point! Have a great day

[Deleted]

Apr 19, 2013 10:28:43 GMT 10 Salem said:

So, anyway. Did it pass? The bill, in NZ, I mean.

Yes!
Resoundingly!

78-44 (or close enough)

[Deleted]

Apr 19, 2013 10:49:33 GMT 10 @grim said:

Apr 19, 2013 10:28:43 GMT 10 Salem said:

So, anyway. Did it pass? The bill, in NZ, I mean.

Yes!
Resoundingly!

78-44 (or close enough)

It was actually 77-44. There are a grand total of 121 MPs in NZ's Parliament at the moment. Officially, there is meant to be 120 (60 Electorate MPs and 60 List MPs), but sometimes electorate seats can be won by a candidate whose party doesn't get much support in the Party List vote, so then there is an overhang. Since MMP came into use in NZ, the total number of MPs has reached as high as 123, when there were three electorate seat overhangs.

Anyway, the tired, old dinosaurs in NZ politics lost and human rights was the REAL winner!

[Deleted]

Kids are taught in schools homosexual marriage is OK....but little is taught that heterosexual marriage is OK..

It is by design in nature some people cannot have children....it is meddling in what is natural that weakens genetic strengths that is vital for survival....hetero or homo...can't have kids too bad. I object strongly to lesbian women using in at tax payers expense.

Equal love has nothing to do with how babies are made naturally.

Vitriol is something we all deal with, what I am noticing is that there are more gays in society which shows the human race is changing in western society...now what that means in the future is say 50% of the population being homosexual where breeding is created not by man and women naturally, but by the test tube method which will in my opinion lead to genetic weakness. Which could result in devastating effects.

I have homosexual friends and I judge them on their character and not their sexuality.....would they make good parents, well nope.

After marriage then what...homosexuals public snogging while strolling their in children around...crikey its pushing the envelope.

I drive a school bus....I know what happens with school trends from first hand observation.

[pim]

Is marriage really just about having kids? In that case why is it that an infertile heterosexual couple can marry but a gay couple - who also can't have kids ... not together in any case! ... can't marry?

[Deleted]

Kids are taught in schools homosexual marriage is OK....but little is taught that heterosexual marriage is OK..
They shouldn't need to be taught that, they should be experiencing it for themselves at home

It is by design in nature some people cannot have children....it is meddling in what is natural that weakens genetic strengths that is vital for survival yet Down's Syndrome and Cystic Fibrosis are two genetic 'faults' which occur naturally following heterosexual sex ....hetero or homo...can't have kids too bad. I object strongly to lesbian women using in at tax payers expense. Perhaps they pay privately?

Equal love has nothing to do with how babies are made naturally.
It doesn't. So then why are you raising it as an issue? This is about gay marriage/equal love. Children aren't even part of the discussion

Vitriol is something we all deal with, what I am noticing is that there are more gays in society
There are probably no more than before...you are just now paying attention
which shows the human race is changing in western society
Is that necessarily a bad thing? Without change, women would still be tied to the kitchen and denied a vote...now what that means in the future is say 50% of the population being homosexual now where did that many come from all of a sudden? where breeding is created not by man and women naturally, but by the test tube method which will in my opinion lead to genetic weakness.
You should leave the Aldous Huxley alone, Spin! Which could result in devastating effects.

I have homosexual friends and I judge them on their character and not their sexuality.....would they make good parents, well nope.
Plenty of heteros make lousy parents but there is nothing to prevent them from breeding...but, we are back on the 'kids' thing again

After marriage then what...homosexuals public snogging while strolling their in children around...crikey its pushing the envelope. They once said that about mixed race couples too. I think public snogging is gross by any measure, personally.

I drive a school bus....I know what happens with school trends from first hand observation.
Sorry,I had to laugh, but...shouldn't you be watching the road? ;D

[Deleted]

[caskur]

Homosexuals are fickle... they marry one second and divorce in a flash...the lawyers will be rubbing their greedy little hands together....lol

there are of course exceptions to rules.

I do hope people from OZ go to New Zealand get married and spend their money there to boost NZ economy... very good tourism drawcard... Well done NZ.