Post by pim on Apr 4, 2013 15:01:18 GMT 10
Which is $72 million in Australian or Canadian money. Nice if you can get it! No dear paleo-atheist brothers, I'm not putting this up as some sort of dog whistle for you to launch yourselves into yet another of your tediously boring anti-clerical tirades that tell us nothing new and shed no new light on anything.
First, the news ...
Converted London church up for $72 million
April 4, 2013 smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/converted-london-church-up-for-72-million-20130404-2h8nr.html
Toby Johnstone
The nave.
The super-rich no longer have to choose between God and Mammon, with a converted church in England now for sale for £50 million ($72.2 million). The 1068 sq m offering is around the corner from Harrods department store in the wealthy London suburb of Knightsbridge. Spread over four levels, the church formally known as St Saviours now has seven bedrooms as well as a bronze and glass lift set within a spiral staircase.
Converted church in Knightsbridge up for sale for $75 million.
The church could well suit David and Victoria Beckham, who are selling their country estate and moving their family to the city. Known as "Beckingham Palace", their mansion is equipped with a recording studio and a helipad and comes with an asking price of £10 million ($14.4million).
Over at the converted church, it's not hard to imagine the football star and his wife, once known as Posh Spice, enjoying the home's many luxuries, which include a 10-metre pool under a gold-leaf ceiling, as well as a hot tub, sauna, gym and home cinema.
Underground gym.
The original 12-metre columns have been retained, as have the grand archways and exposed beams. The Diocese of London sold the church to developers 15 years ago for about £1 million due to low congregation numbers and growing repair bills. The Evening Standard reported that it was the home of Les Miserables and Miss Saigon librettist Alain Boublil for six years before it sold in 2009 to a wealthy Thai businessman for £13.5 million ($19.5 million). A further £10 million ($14.4million) was then spent on renovations.
Pool and spa room.
Although the property is not formally for sale, developers Rigby & Rigby are seeking interest from wealthy international buyers. But whoever buys the Knightsbridge church won't have it all to themselves. Part of the block is still owned by the diocese and will continue to be a place of worship.
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It's like this, you see. Forget about all the "God exists! It's a no-brainer/God doesn't exist! It's a no-brainer" bullshit and twaddle. Instead think about property title.
I guess all of us here on NTB own some sort of real estate. Home ownership in Australia is at around the 70% mark and I'm guessing it's the same, or pretty similar, in Canada. Right, Dib? So if I say I own a house then that means that there's a title deed that proves it and therefore it's an asset that I can add value to or dispose of by selling it. Or I can do nothing and just live in it.
But a church?? Who owns a church? God? Or the religion which, presumably, acts as an incorporated body which, under the laws relating to property ownership, holds a set of title deeds and is therefore able to pocket the proceeds if it decides to liquidate the asset by selling it on the property market.
Your house, and mine, is a dwelling that stands on land which, by virtue of the fact that your house stands upon it, and fronts on to a street that has been paved and kerbed and guttered, is said to have been "improved" and is therefore subject to a land tax which we in Australia call "council rates" and which we pay quarterly. What is a church under those laws? Apparently in Australia (I may be wrong so please feel free to correct me) a structure that has been offiially designated a "place of worship" is exempt from the council rates that the rest of us pay. So what happens when a place of worship, with all its tax breaks, is placed on the property market and a "For Sale" sign is hammered into the ground in front of it? Does it get redesignated? Is God consulted at any stage of the process?
A church is said to be "consecrated" whic means "made sacred". Let's not quibble about the meaning here: it means that the church effectively has been given over to God. It isn't a property to be disposed of like a deceased estate. I realise we've had this debate before and everybody disagrees with me on this one so I won't push it. I'm not interested in dead end non-debates. But the legal position of a church building does interest me.
Adelaide is called in Australia the "city of churches". There are churches everywhere in that wonderful Mount Gambier quarried stone. Lots of the smaller ones have been sold and are either private dwellings these days or small businesses. They stand on land that back in colonial times would have been granted, not purchased. So the value-adding and the capital gain would be vastly enhanced by the fact that the original acquisition of the land would have been as an outright grant, and the building itself erected by volunteer labour, with the building materials having been donated.
Consequently, when the Anglicans or the Catholics decide to dispose of a church by having it reclassified as a negotiable asset, what happens to all that tax liability? Does a church pay stamp duty on the sale of a property?
First, the news ...
Converted London church up for $72 million
April 4, 2013 smh.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/converted-london-church-up-for-72-million-20130404-2h8nr.html
Toby Johnstone
The nave.
The super-rich no longer have to choose between God and Mammon, with a converted church in England now for sale for £50 million ($72.2 million). The 1068 sq m offering is around the corner from Harrods department store in the wealthy London suburb of Knightsbridge. Spread over four levels, the church formally known as St Saviours now has seven bedrooms as well as a bronze and glass lift set within a spiral staircase.
Converted church in Knightsbridge up for sale for $75 million.
The church could well suit David and Victoria Beckham, who are selling their country estate and moving their family to the city. Known as "Beckingham Palace", their mansion is equipped with a recording studio and a helipad and comes with an asking price of £10 million ($14.4million).
Over at the converted church, it's not hard to imagine the football star and his wife, once known as Posh Spice, enjoying the home's many luxuries, which include a 10-metre pool under a gold-leaf ceiling, as well as a hot tub, sauna, gym and home cinema.
Underground gym.
The original 12-metre columns have been retained, as have the grand archways and exposed beams. The Diocese of London sold the church to developers 15 years ago for about £1 million due to low congregation numbers and growing repair bills. The Evening Standard reported that it was the home of Les Miserables and Miss Saigon librettist Alain Boublil for six years before it sold in 2009 to a wealthy Thai businessman for £13.5 million ($19.5 million). A further £10 million ($14.4million) was then spent on renovations.
Pool and spa room.
Although the property is not formally for sale, developers Rigby & Rigby are seeking interest from wealthy international buyers. But whoever buys the Knightsbridge church won't have it all to themselves. Part of the block is still owned by the diocese and will continue to be a place of worship.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's like this, you see. Forget about all the "God exists! It's a no-brainer/God doesn't exist! It's a no-brainer" bullshit and twaddle. Instead think about property title.
I guess all of us here on NTB own some sort of real estate. Home ownership in Australia is at around the 70% mark and I'm guessing it's the same, or pretty similar, in Canada. Right, Dib? So if I say I own a house then that means that there's a title deed that proves it and therefore it's an asset that I can add value to or dispose of by selling it. Or I can do nothing and just live in it.
But a church?? Who owns a church? God? Or the religion which, presumably, acts as an incorporated body which, under the laws relating to property ownership, holds a set of title deeds and is therefore able to pocket the proceeds if it decides to liquidate the asset by selling it on the property market.
Your house, and mine, is a dwelling that stands on land which, by virtue of the fact that your house stands upon it, and fronts on to a street that has been paved and kerbed and guttered, is said to have been "improved" and is therefore subject to a land tax which we in Australia call "council rates" and which we pay quarterly. What is a church under those laws? Apparently in Australia (I may be wrong so please feel free to correct me) a structure that has been offiially designated a "place of worship" is exempt from the council rates that the rest of us pay. So what happens when a place of worship, with all its tax breaks, is placed on the property market and a "For Sale" sign is hammered into the ground in front of it? Does it get redesignated? Is God consulted at any stage of the process?
A church is said to be "consecrated" whic means "made sacred". Let's not quibble about the meaning here: it means that the church effectively has been given over to God. It isn't a property to be disposed of like a deceased estate. I realise we've had this debate before and everybody disagrees with me on this one so I won't push it. I'm not interested in dead end non-debates. But the legal position of a church building does interest me.
Adelaide is called in Australia the "city of churches". There are churches everywhere in that wonderful Mount Gambier quarried stone. Lots of the smaller ones have been sold and are either private dwellings these days or small businesses. They stand on land that back in colonial times would have been granted, not purchased. So the value-adding and the capital gain would be vastly enhanced by the fact that the original acquisition of the land would have been as an outright grant, and the building itself erected by volunteer labour, with the building materials having been donated.
Consequently, when the Anglicans or the Catholics decide to dispose of a church by having it reclassified as a negotiable asset, what happens to all that tax liability? Does a church pay stamp duty on the sale of a property?
