Another reason to ban guns

[slartibartfast]

Oscar Pistorius accidentally kills girlfriend: reports

South Africa's Olympic double amputee Oscar Pistorius shot his girlfriend dead after mistaking her for a burglar, according to reports.

Pistorius, known as "The Blade Runner", allegedly killed his girlfriend at 4am (1pm AEDT) on Thursday morning local time at his home in Pretoria, the Die Beeld website reports.

Police captain Sarah Mcira confirmed that a woman was shot four times in the arm and the head.

She was declared dead at the scene.

Die Beeld has named the victim as his girlfriend of a year, Reeva Steenkamp.

Steenkamp is a model who has posed for FHM and described herself on her Twitter page as a "SA Model, Cover Girl, Tropika Island of Treasure Celeb Contestant, Law Graduate, Child of God."

South African journalist Kalay Maistry told Sky News that it is believed his girlfriend was trying to surprise him for Valentine's Day.

"I think what this actually highlights is the level of fear ordinary South Africans have," she said.

"This is a man who has gone to bed, it's an innocent surprise from a girlfriend … and the moment he thinks someone is trying to break in he grabs his gun."

Yesterday Steenkamp tweeted a now-eerie Valentine's Day message.

"What do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow??? #getexcited #ValentinesDay," she wrote

news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2013/02/14/17/36/oscar-pistorius-accidentally-kills-girlfriend-reports

[jody]

fired 4 shots?? Gotta wonder why!

[Deleted]

People have to learn not to live in fear...

[caskur]

I just read about him in Wiki... he was born on the same day two of my other siblings were...


anyway, he will be in great distress over this... I cannot imagine the mental torture he must be going through right now. I hope he can survive it.

[slartibartfast]

I wonder how long it will be before flogg will defend him for self-defence.

[caskur]

It don't think it was self-defece.

[volk]

Feb 15, 2013 6:29:13 GMT 10 caskur said:

It don't think it was self-defece.

According to media reports coming out of Jo'burg this morning 15th Feb (Australian Eastern Day-After-Valentines-Day Saving time) the whole "acting in self defence" story might have a few holes in it. Apparently his girlfriend had arrived at the premises the evening before, not in the early hours of the morning (leading to the "intruder" angle) as first described by the "alleged shooter". Early days in the investigation, no doubt the media are picking up the usual crap and broadcasting whatever makes exciting reporting.

I'd go as far to say Mr Pistorius has a problem or two at the moment!

[caskur]

Feb 15, 2013 7:12:07 GMT 10 volk said:

Feb 15, 2013 6:29:13 GMT 10 caskur said:

It don't think it was self-defece.

According to media reports coming out of Jo'burg this morning 15th Feb (Australian Eastern Day-After-Valentines-Day Saving time) the whole "acting in self defence" story might have a few holes in it. Apparently his girlfriend had arrived at the premises the evening before, not in the early hours of the morning (leading to the "intruder" angle) as first described by the "alleged shooter". Early days in the investigation, no doubt the media are picking up the usual crap and broadcasting whatever makes exciting reporting.

I'd go as far to say Mr Pistorius has a problem or two at the moment!

Yep and she was also going into a reality TV show in the Bahamas or something so she was going to be going away for a stretch. I would say ol mister murderer had/has a possession and jealousy issue.... that is my suspicion.

[pim]

So ... the truth is out there somewhere and we can't trust the media reports. Maybe it isn't about guns, or rather maybe the South African situation is more akin to PNG than to suburban Australia. Apparently if you live as a whitefella expat in Port Moresby you live in a gated community behind razor wire with security. Jo'burg, so I'm told, is the same. Whatever the facts of the Pistorius case, linking it to the more general issue of gun control is bullshit in the South African situation.

[pim]

Oh Earl Grey get real. If you live as a middle class whitefella in a town like Jo'burg it's going to be behind razor wire in a gated compound. When I first registered as a teacher in South Australia, lots of the applicants for registration who'd come from o'seas had South African accents. "Sooth Efrican" as they'd call themselves. You don't have to go far to encounter a "Sooth Efrican". Perth is full of the blighters, as Caskur could confirm, and Adelaide has its fair share. Ever talked to them? They call the stream of white "Sooth Efricans" to Australia the "chicken run". But who could blame them with the stories of break & enter and car jackings. Australia is a very attractive prospect for these people. What? .. they would say ... you mean I can live in a house with a front garden facing out onto the street? No razor wire? No contract with a security firm? You can just walk down the street? No guns because I don't need them? Where do I sign up!! I've heard of people over there who go to sleep with a Glock pistol under their pillow. Who needs it!!

[pim]

Feb 15, 2013 10:10:31 GMT 10 Gort said:

The very fact that he lived inside a very secure gated community means he didn't need a gun in the house.

You don't know that and neither do I. Ask the people who have had to live in that sort of environment.

Add to that the fact that he was involved in a number of domestic disputes ... it ought to have seen him relieved of his gun.

i.e.

Better gun control was needed with this man.

I'm not arguing about the individual case because all I have to do is look at this thread and it seems that you just can't trust the media reports on the "facts". So I haven't got a clue! As I said, the truth regarding the Pistorius case is out there somewhere, but it sure ain't in the media.

It seems there are two issues here on this thread,and it was slarti who made the link. Wrongly, I feel! I disagree with him that the issues involved in this individual case are the same as in the more general issue of gun control. Actually slarti takes it further: he's not calling for gun control, he's calling for guns to be banned. It's an "ultra left" stance in which, once again, the Perfect becomes the enemy of the Good. Typical Green lollipop left bullshit. Banning guns is not the same as gun control. I'm all in favour of gun control but I'm not prepared to support a blanket ban on firearms. So the two issues are:

1. The individual Pistorius case and whether or not he should have been allowed to be armed given the issues on his record.

2. The general issue of guns and gun control.

I have nothing to add on (1) that I haven't said already. If the issue is that a disturbed individual with a history of domestic violence shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm, then who am I to argue with that?? It's a no-brainer. But the "facts" are obscure.

As for (2), the issues in South Africa are more like those in PNG than in suburban Australia. There are parts of the world where your personal security is a dodgy issue. I hear of people driving on a public street in towns like Jo'burg with the windows wound up and the doors locked. You could be stopped at traffic lights only to find your door yanked open, a weapon thrust in your face and a voice telling you to get the f*** out of your car and to leave the keys in the ignition. You live behind razor wire in a gated compound and you make sure your payments to the security firm that your neighbourhood has a contract with are always up-to-date, but for extra insurance you have your Glock under your pillow at night.

There are people who live like that because their circumstances oblige them to live like that. I'm not going to sit in my Adelaide comfort zone and offer pious bromides to these people that "tsk! tsk! you really don't need your gun"

Rubbish

[Deleted]

Well, if your first reaction is to reach for a gun and use it, then whatever happens is on your shoulders.

Such as this American who thought he could solve anything by pulling out a gun and then pulling the trigger....



Connecticut teacher kills masked teen, learns it was son

By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN - Associated Press | Friday, September 28, 2012


Visitors arrive at the home of Jeffrey Giuliano in New Fairfield, Connecticut, Friday, September 28, 2012. Giuliano fatally
shot a masked teenager in self-defense during what appeared to be an attempted burglary early Thursday morning,
then discovered that he had killed his son, Tyler, state police said. — Photo: Associated Press/Jessica Hill.

NEW FAIRFIELD, Connecticut — A small Connecticut town was sent reeling in grief and confusion Friday after a popular fifth-grade teacher shot and killed a knife-wielding prowler in a black ski mask, only to discover it was his 15-year-old son.

No immediate charges were brought against the father, Jeffrey Giuliano, in the slaying of his son, Tyler, who was gunned down in his aunt's driveway next door to his own home around 1 a.m. Thursday.

"It's something out of a Hollywood script," said John Hodge, the first selectman, or top elected official, in the town of nearly 14,000 people about 50 miles from New York city. He said he couldn't recall another killing in his eight years on the job.

State police spokesman Lieutenant J. Paul Vance said the boy had never been in trouble with the law, and some of those who knew him described him as a good kid with an easygoing personality. Investigators and acquaintances said they were at a loss to explain what he was doing outside dressed all in black and carrying a weapon.

"Certainly, that is the major question we are trying to answer at this point," Vance said.

State police said the shooting happened after Jeffrey Giuliano got a call from his sister next door saying that someone might be trying to break into her home in their neighborhood of attractive colonial-style houses. Giuliano grabbed a handgun and went outside to investigate, troopers said.

He confronted someone in a ski mask and opened fire when the person came at him with something shiny in his hand, police said.

When police officers arrived, Tyler was lying dead in the driveway with a knife in his hand, and his father, in T-shirt and shorts, was sitting on the grass. Detectives informed the elder Giuliano several hours later that he had shot his son, Vance said.

"All in all it's a tragedy," Vance said.

Police were investigating whether the father's gun was registered.

No one answered the door at Giuliano's home or his sister's.

Tyler was a student at New Fairfield High School and a Civil Air Patrol cadet. Some of those who knew him said he enjoyed spending time with his family and flying gliders and small planes. He was adopted by Giuliano and his wife a few years ago, friends said.

One classmate said many students were baffled by what happened.

"I just thought it was so weird when I heard because I knew Tyler, not very well, but he was just a sweet person and he always made everyone laugh. I met him in the chorus room, actually, and he just wasn't the type to do what happened," said Erin Pallas, 16. "So it didn't make sense to us. It doesn't make sense to the student body."

Brett Rasile, a 14-year-old friend, said he and Tyler were playing an online game called Minecraft while talking and laughing together via Skype until about 10 p.m. Wednesday, when Tyler said he had to go to bed. Brett said Tyler wasn't in any trouble that he knew of, and nothing seemed out of the ordinary.

"Same old Tyler. He was perfectly fine," Brett said. "He didn't really leave any evidence, any hints towards what he would do."

Alicia Roy, New Fairfield superintendent of schools, said the elder Giuliano grew up in the town, holds summer music and zoology camps for his students and plays guitar in a local rock band that raises money for charity. He is affectionately known as "Mr. G" around Meeting House Hill School.

"He was the teacher you requested in the fifth grade. He was a great teacher. All the kids loved him," said Rosemary Rasile, Brett's mother.

Brian Wyckoff, 17, said Mr. G "was always walking around with a smile on his face. He always says hi to everyone."

The high school stayed open late to provide grief counseling for students and parents.

"The community is deeply saddened, and our hearts go out to all the family members," Roy said.

• Associated Press reporter Dan Sewell reported from Cincinnati.

• Pat Eaton-Robb and Stephen Singer reported from Hartford, Connecticut.

• Associated Press video journalist Ted Shaffrey also contributed to this story.

www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ihSOm_mKGrkRKuFbPUFreVqTfqRA?docId=49e087761dbf44ef9c227a82d2216d7d

[pim]

<sigh> That is middle class suburban Connecticut. We're talking about South Africa. Please don't conflate the two.

And lest I get misrepresented and verballed again: calling for guns to be banned is not the same as calling for gun control laws.

I have no idea of the law as it relates to guns in a country like South Africa. Do you? I doubt it. And what I don't doubt in the slightest is that the issues relating to gun ownership and gun laws in South Africa would be very different from the United States.

As regards Pistorius, his personal issues and history, that's a different issue again. Come to drop one of your farts about "evil" Americans and "evil" whitfellas have you, KTJ? Spare us, please.

[Deleted]

Anyway, I've just been watching the early-evening television news bulletin in NZ and in an interview, a South African female cop claimed that the accidental shooting story was a load of bullshit from the news media. She said the couple had a loud domestic (which disturbed several of their neighbours) which ended with gunfire.

[Salem]

Ironic. I grew up with and went to school with a girl whose mother is from Pretoria South Africa. And no, they do not pronouce South Africa as 'Sooth Efrica'. They pronouce it as Sith Efrica or Sith Efrican. The poms pronounce it as sooth, just as they do with house (hoose). But going by my childhood friend's mother, native Pretorians if not South Africans, pronouce it Sith (or suth - its rather like how the i is with with NZers).

[bender]

I work with a few South Africans (more so as Pim pointed out on the west coast) and their description of the standard security precautions that people take is pretty incredible. You don't stop at traffic lights after about 9.00pm you just coast through at a reduced speed, (and some people say there's no harm in holding your pistol in clear view on top of the dashboard as you slow down) and it's considered nothing more then good manners to offer an overseas visitor a loan of a handgun if you're all going out to dinner somewhere.

One good friend of mine who's a former Lt Colonel in the SADF related to me a story about getting carjacked, he's a very capable person and managed to get hmself out of the situation (he said that he was willing to let them have the car but when they said that they were going to take him back to the township and rape him to use his words "I couldn't let that happen so I had to put the smackdown on them"), but to me it sounded absolutely terrifying.

The other interesting thing he told me in the same conversation is how often firearms make an appearance in road rage incidents, he told me he'd pulled his gun out several times in arguments with other drivers and had had the same done to him on occasion. I know that our Embassy Staff for South Africa go through an extended course to prepare them for the security hazards.

I suppose you could assess the need for gun control in South Africa (or anywhere else) on the basis of need Vs misuse. I haven't heard of any massacres of the (American type) occuring in South Africa and the one constant refrain from anyone who has lived in South Africa in the last decade is that crime is very prevelant and the potential for crimes like street robbery to escalate into murder or sexual assault is greater then pretty much everywhere else in the world.

Of course you also have the case of some numbnut who from all reports lost his temper and fired blindly through a bathroom door when his girlfriend was on the other side of it.

Really when you think about it, it's the numbnuts who always spoil it for everyone.

[Deleted]

Was reading, last nite, that free Murdoch Arse-wipe that they give to commuters on their way home from work. It's front page featured this story. What stuck me in particular was Pistorious' fathers message to the slain Woman's family. It was wtte "our hearts go out to the Woman's family..."
Think about it for a moment, this woman was Pistorius' long time Partner, his father would have been very familiar with her, yet he refers to her as "this Woman" rather than by her name.
How cold and callous is that ?
It sorta explains, perhaps, an underlying attitude that Pistorious probably has, and a driver of his apparent history of domestic violence.

[Deleted]

For the most being shot by anyone is fairly high odds of not being shot, it is the situation where easy access to guns and ammunition is a problem that is escalating where innocent people are being shot, and in the worst crimes of mass shootings.

Obviously gun control isn't working....something has to be worked out to solve the problem. The argument for owning a gun that it is for self defense is lost when as with Pistorious most shootings happen in a fit of rage, easy access so grab the gun and shoot.

Crime in Sooth, Sith or South Efrika has been somewhat exaggerated, not to say there wasn't a problem it has been the SA government acted to work out solutions, and crime rates have fallen in Johannesburg and the city center, my daughter was there last year and felt quite safe even in the poor areas, yet out of fear and primordial rage brains disengage and people are pulling out their guns at one another for any reasons, not just self defense is an issue that has to be considered in gun control.

With corruption and big business the situation is guns and ammo are manufactured without control on limits or no limits ....I think this where the solution can be solved, slow down the manufacturing.

Which ain't going to happen and so the story continues as governments divver for years on what to do, and in the mean time pop music sings praises to the gun, while big business gets bang in profits for its buck.

The capitalist greed is good scenario....somethinhg Abbott will restore with relish when he wins government, and then gun crime escalates more with even more hatred and rage in the young.

[Deleted]

[caskur]

well 15 yr olds have been known to murder parents...

doh!

[garfield]

Feb 16, 2013 8:58:38 GMT 10 @spindrift111 said:

The capitalist greed is good scenario....somethinhg Abbott will restore with relish when he wins government, and then gun crime escalates more with even more hatred and rage in the young.

LOL, can't resist the urge to make idiotic comments at any opportunity can you ;D

[pim]

Look who's talking!

[garfield]

Feb 19, 2013 7:52:53 GMT 10 pim said:

Look who's talking!

Yeah you ;D

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2013 7:24:18 GMT 10 caskur said:

well 15 yr olds have been known to murder parents...

doh!

Its a shame one didn't !

[Deleted]