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Post by geopol on Sept 19, 2015 17:09:40 GMT 10
Could someone clarify this? Is not the leader of the ALP entrenched between elections, so that no challenge can occur except after an election? I thought Rudd decided on this as a lasting legacy to prevent the ructions of the past which have now, apparently, infected the Liberals as well...
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Post by caskur on Sept 19, 2015 18:43:33 GMT 10
Could someone clarify this? Is not the leader of the ALP entrenched between elections, so that no challenge can occur except after an election? I thought Rudd decided on this as a lasting legacy to prevent the ructions of the past which have now, apparently, infected the Liberals as well... Nah... Wasn't John Howard challenged 2 or 3 times by Costello? I can't remember however all the politicians are deplorable. With any luck, most of them will drop dead from heart attacks on their morning runs!
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Post by Salem on Sept 19, 2015 21:56:13 GMT 10
Caskur, nope, Costello never challenged Howard, not even once. Then again, even if he did, he wouldn't have had the numbers and I think he knew that.
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Post by caskur on Sept 19, 2015 23:19:13 GMT 10
What was all that press that went on for years asking Howard to step down and let Costello take-over then?
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Post by KTJ on Sept 20, 2015 9:32:01 GMT 10
CLICK HERE to read the Editorial published in Wednesday's Dominion Post newspaper in Wellington.
The editorial is a commentary about the change of leadership from Tony Abbott to Malcolm Turnbull.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2015 10:04:38 GMT 10
Unpopular Abbott was doomed with his last gaffe about Nazis and ISIS the ultra conservative Jewish lobby insured that outcome regardless of Canning by election.
The hatred by the ultra right within the conservatives remains they still hate/dislike Turnbull, a comparison to Rudd with people popular but factions within the party despised him, also in that mix consider Bolt, Jones and Hadley who wanted Morrison as leader.. their man in power and will probably try their best to undermine Turnbull, unless a greater power Murdoch tells them to shut their obnoxious cake holes.
Shorto didn't carry himself to well with news Turnbull was taking over the coalition reins, and his response was a tad nasty, no doubt he wanting Abbott to stay on or Morrison to take over he should have realised a better response than he did.
People can see Australia needs more than a change in leaders for a vision forward, and perhaps Turnbull can evoke change in coalition polices which are much less than Labors and Shorto's vision and ideas,... while Shorto has a greater task to sell his vision hopefully he can, to be sure he has strengths especially when he is gas bagging to unions the bloke is on fire on those occasions....so wouldn't write him off yet.
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Post by pim on Sept 20, 2015 11:00:54 GMT 10
I agree with your analysis Ponto but I think the shock jocks are starting to pay the price for their hubris and arrogance. Their day, while not quite over, is definitely entering its twilight stage.
As for Shorten, Abbott gave him an easy ride up until now so he (Shorten) could squib on his promises that this would be a year of ideas. I mean, why interrupt your opponent when he's in the process of destroying himself with own goals and time bombs that he'd set when in opposition that exploded after he'd become prime minister? The small target strategy worked a treat when the opponent was Abbott, but the game has changed.
The fruitcake loony toons tea party faction of the Liberal Party, the 30 Liberals who voted for Kevin Andrews instead of Julie Bishop, as well as the Nationals, think they've nobbled Malcolm Turnbull but I think they're sadly mistaken. In fact I think it's proof of just how much that faction has wedged itself so far out on a limb that they're out of touch with the mainstream, and Turnbull knows it. They're not going to be able to contain Turnbull and I think we ain't seen nothin' yet. The question for Shorten Labor is whether they've understood that the small target strategy has passed its use by date. With Turnbull you're going to see ideas advocated, explained and argued. Shorten's response is going to have to be big Labor ideas. Shorten's going to have to show us how he is with the "vision thing". Is he going to be outclassed, or will he surprise us?
Watch this space!
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Post by pim on Sept 20, 2015 12:06:23 GMT 10
Or grass grow?
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Post by pim on Sept 20, 2015 13:38:36 GMT 10
Given that Governments are voted out, not oppositions voted in ... That's true in principle. It was certainly true in the case of Rudd/Gillard /Rudd. Thing is that it’s not the whole truth. The worry about Shorten has been that, bad as Abbott was Shorten still needed to give people a reason to vote Labor and your worry, and my worry and the worry of a lot of Labor supporters was that Shorten wasn't delivering on that reason. Much as I'd like to agree with you that it was all about Abbott, the reality is that it wasn't all about Abbott. Tony didn't wedge the Liberals out on an extremist limb all on his own. So who are this hard core far right within the Liberal Party? For that you'd have to look not at the ballot between Abbott and Turnbull (44-54) but between Julie Bishop (70) and Kevin Andrews (30). The Abbott/Turnbull ballot occurred first and people voted with all sorts of agendas. Apparently there was even an abstention (!!) and one individual missed the vote but turned up in time to vote on the Bishop/Andrews ballot. My argument is that the 30 people who voted for Andrews are the hard core far right of the Liberal Party. They were the base of support for Abbott, the ones who'd said they'd "eat glass" before they'd vote for Turnbull. They're still there and they're stroppy. Turnbull's biggest political problem as PM isn't Shorten but how to deal with that hard core. It's worth recalling Rob Oakeshott's valedictory speech before the 2013 election. The part that stays with me (apart from his "your father would be proud of you" to Gillard) is his warning to the Parliament that "the extreme has invaded the centre". It's those 30 rednecks that he's talking about, and the iceberg that they're the tip of. I agree with you there but only with the proviso that Turnbull is able to deal with the extremists and rednecks in his own ranks who loathe him more than they loathe Labor. If he deals with that issue and finds a way to neutralise it - a big ask and maybe even an impossible ask- then he'll be unstoppable.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2015 16:47:23 GMT 10
On the money with the ultra conservatives in the coalition have to be dealt with by Turnbull and he and the people have to remove them, the are nothing but a millstone around the nations neck.
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Post by caskur on Sept 21, 2015 15:44:54 GMT 10
Isn't Turnbullshitter rich enough to pay off journalists?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 17:18:49 GMT 10
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Post by pim on Sept 21, 2015 17:22:09 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 17:23:15 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 17:23:45 GMT 10
Cartoon time......
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Post by caskur on Sept 21, 2015 17:48:31 GMT 10
Anyone who stops loons from the ME coming here deserves a medal....
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Post by pim on Sept 21, 2015 18:28:19 GMT 10
Would that include internationally acclaimed Australian novelist David Malouf? Or former NSW Governor the Hon Dame Marie Bashir AD CVO? Or how about the former Treasurer the Hon Joe Hockey?
Or if you want just plain ordinary folks how about the local greengrocer in the NSW town where I went to primary school Mr Kaleel? Or a local dairy farmer Mr Abdoo whose kids I went to school with?
It's gonna take you and Stellar a while to accept that the 19 years that began with the election of the Howard Government and ended with the fall of the Abbott government were the heyday for racists and bigots like you lot. But it’s over. Welcome to the world of RDS - relevance deprivation syndrome.
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Post by caskur on Sept 21, 2015 19:27:44 GMT 10
I just have to sit back and watch American bombs do their dirty work....
And they will drop their bombs soon enough.
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Post by Yassir Rebob on Sept 22, 2015 12:49:55 GMT 10
I'd give Shorten until Christmas. The latest polls for Turnbull are only a reflection on just how toxic Abbott was in the electorate. You would think that as it becomes apparent that the policies haven't changed, the polls will drift back, because the real problem for the libs lies not on their salesman, but in the product that they are selling. Assuming that Turbull doesn't call an early election, then, for mine, Shorten needs to start getting his act together by the end of the year. Trouble is that the new rules that the ALP are bound by when changing leaders, mean that Turnbull could call an election whilst the ALP are still going through their process in allowing both the parliamentary and wider membership of the party vote for leader.
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Post by caskur on Sept 22, 2015 16:35:15 GMT 10
Good points Yassir, What really pisses me off is that I'm approaching retirement and have been subject to quite high marginal tax rates over my working life ... now, it seems likely that the COALition will bring in a 50% increase to the GST from 10% to 15% Blimey! I've been taxed highly while working, taxed on the income, taxed on Super while it's sitting there, now, when I'm just about to get my hands on my Super, I'm going to have to pay heaps more when I spend it!!! They were ALWAYS going to get their hands on your super... ALWAYS. And they'll eventually grab our houses too... They blow too much money on unworthy causes.... and THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU!!
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Post by caskur on Sept 23, 2015 17:11:30 GMT 10
Turnbullshitter is a self absorbed scum stain. I totally disagree with Salem he is good looking... When I see his ugly treacherous head I physically want to puke.
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Post by pim on Sept 23, 2015 17:23:11 GMT 10
Well bully for you. Puke quietly into the loo basin, make sure the door's closed and clean up after youself. Oh, and ... err ... we don’t wanna know about it.
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Post by caskur on Sept 23, 2015 19:08:12 GMT 10
Well bully for you. Puke quietly into the loo basin, make sure the door's closed and clean up after youself. Oh, and ... err ... we don’t wanna know about it. Be careful secretary or you will be on latrine duty soon!!!
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Post by pim on Sept 23, 2015 19:13:50 GMT 10
Sorry but I have to tell you that on this board we clean up our own mess.
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Post by caskur on Sept 23, 2015 19:18:24 GMT 10
Work, Save and Invest (in super so we can steal it off you at a later date like Hitler conscripted the Volkswagen off the workers to use in their War)
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