Brittany Higgins is in hospital

[pim]

Jun 6, 2021 13:36:09 GMT 10 caskur said:

The only problem about "Brittany Higgins deserves justice" is she'll be put on trial and not the rapist.

You do have a valid point there that highlights the salient issue with rape and which goes a long way to explain why so many cases of rape are not reported by the victim - she is not believed. But that underscores the courage of this brave young woman who is doubtless as aware as you are of the issue of non-belief by the police and the courts and is nevertheless prepared to go ahead with it.

Nobody is arguing that the police don't need time to do their investigation and prepare their brief of evidence for the DPP. But they've had loads of time. So much that it risks looking like a police go-slow. Justice delayed any longer for Brittany Higgins is justice denied.

[matte]

Who knows how long an investigation will go for? What is the timeframe judged against? What benchmark?

The only reason we know about this case is because it is high profile. It is muddied by the political system. It involved Senator Linda Reynolds (who should have left politics) along with so many other people.

Who knows, with this many witnesses, it may prove beneficial to the DPP when they prosecute the case, if it does go to trial.

I feel for Brittany Higgins, she has been through a lot. She tried to get help from her boss but was told that she was a "lying cow", which Reynolds admitted to (and should resign over).

I have absolute confidence that the AFP are conducting a methodical and thorough investigation, free from political pressure.

It would be great if the media would let the AFP get on with it and if Labor would stop trying to get political mileage out of it.

I don't want to question the concern that Labor has for Brittany, but I do wonder if it is genuine?

[Gort]

That "lying cow" incident, although disgraceful - was not about the alleged rape claim, rather about the claim that Brittany did not receive some help after the event. It was not said to her either, it was a comment to another staffer.

Still, it was a very bad thing to have been said.

[matte]

Jun 6, 2021 17:25:19 GMT 10 Gort said:

That "lying cow" incident, although disgraceful - was not about the alleged the rape claim, rather about the claim that Brittany did not receive some help after the event. It was not said to her either, it was a comment to another staffer.

Still, it was a very bad thing to have been said.

All connected to the incident. The senator did not provide her with thr support needed.

She should have gone. It wouldn't have had an impact on the numbers in the Senate as a senator quitting is easy.

[Gort]

Yes it was connected to the incident, but some people quote the "lying cow" remark as if it was saying she was lying about the rape, which is not the case. It's good to clear that bit up.

Some in the media and a few Labor politicians are prone to being loose with the truth like that. It really pisses me off.

The wrong inference then becomes the narrative.

Like the returning people from overseas by Christmas remark. At the time, all those who were registered were returned, but some in the media and some Labor pollies say that the government failed to return all those by Christmas, in fact it was because many more registered after the initial list that those were not all returned.

The narrative becomes the folklore because the detail gets lost. Deliberately. It's annoying.

[matte]

The worst part is that Senator Linda Reynolds likely had no genuine concern for Brittany. She was likely thinking "what will this mean for my political career, my parliamentary super".

[caskur]

Jun 6, 2021 17:27:47 GMT 10 matte said:

Jun 6, 2021 17:25:19 GMT 10 Gort said:

That "lying cow" incident, although disgraceful - was not about the alleged the rape claim, rather about the claim that Brittany did not receive some help after the event. It was not said to her either, it was a comment to another staffer.

Still, it was a very bad thing to have been said.

All connected to the incident. The senator did not provide her with thr support needed.

She should have gone. It wouldn't have had an impact on the numbers in the Senate as a senator quitting is easy.

The staffer should go for being a dobber!

[caskur]

Jun 6, 2021 17:53:29 GMT 10 matte said:

The worst part is that Senator Linda Reynolds likely had no genuine concern for Brittany. She was likely thinking "what will this mean for my political career, my parliamentary super".

They told Brittany to go to police. That is all they can do... What more do you expect them to do?

[matte]

A 26 year old man has been charged by the AFP over her alleged rape.

[caskur]

Excellent but he will get off.

Rapists aren't treated the way they should be treated which would be 100 lashes and a 10 year jail stint.

[Stellar]

Jun 6, 2021 17:25:19 GMT 10 Gort said:

That "lying cow" incident, although disgraceful - was not about the alleged rape claim, rather about the claim that Brittany did not receive some help after the event. It was not said to her either, it was a comment to another staffer.

Still, it was a very bad thing to have been said.

It would have been said in the heat of the moment and out of sheer exasperation.

[Stellar]

Jun 6, 2021 19:41:45 GMT 10 caskur said:

Jun 6, 2021 17:53:29 GMT 10 matte said:

The worst part is that Senator Linda Reynolds likely had no genuine concern for Brittany. She was likely thinking "what will this mean for my political career, my parliamentary super".

They told Brittany to go to police. That is all they can do... What more do you expect them to do?

Yep.  At the end of the day, it takes two to tango.  

What I don't understand is that Brittany Higgins was a new staffer.  Had been there only two weeks.  You would have thought she would be trying to make a good impression.  This is not to undermine the behaviour of the male staffer.  But I think if Higgins hadn't got drunk she would have not been caught up in this situation.  She would have been in control - which would be expected of any adult. 

So now it will be up to the court to decide the guilt or not of the male staffer.  If he is found guilty then he deserves whatever punishment the court dishes out. 

And maybe staffers going into Parliament House when they are off duty will not be allowed in future.   

[caskur]

One of my former neighbours was drunk when she was raped. The rapist flushed her head in the toilet as well. She is active in AA these days. Not once in high school or primary school was I warned about rapists if people got drunk and girls aren't the only victims of rapists, boys are to. Teachers and parents should tell kids, if they get drunk, predators will use that advantage to rape, or rob, or bash.

[Stellar]

I always had a great sense of self-preservation as a teen.  I just wouldn't drink to excess and I never used drugs.  I can honestly say I have never been drunk - maybe a little bit merry, but always completely in control.  It scares the life out of me - the thought of not being in control.  

I think we learn our behaviours from our parents.  If some kids don't have that sort of example of the right way to behave, then yes, they should have some instruction in high school.   But kids being kids, a good many of them will just ignore it anyway. 
  

[pim]

A few points:

1. No woman asks to be raped. A woman might think that’s a trite and obvious thing to say. But I’m a bloke who was brought up in Australia’s very blokey culture and who reached adulthood in the 1960s in what was then a very blokey Australian city, Newcastle. Those of my generation might dimly remember “The Newcastle Song”. It’s mid 1970s but what it portrays was alive and kicking in the 1960s. The common male “wisdom” among young fellas was “They’re askin’ for it” or, put more crudely, when referring to the female pudenda: “It’s gotta be fed, and it’s too high to eat grass”. It was the age of the mini skirt and in rape cases before the courts - court proceedings were routinely reported in lurid detail in the then Newcastle Morning Herald - disapproving comments were equally routinely made by (male) judges and magistrates about young women dressing “provocatively”, as if that mitigated the sexual assault because she asked for it didn’t she. Women students at the then Newcastle Teachers College would be urged to dress “with becoming decorum”. What were then called “slacks” were “out” because of complaints made to the College by local residents that they found the sight of female student teachers walking between the bus stop and the college dressed in “slacks” to be “offensive” and “unbecoming”. In short, the responsibility was firmly with the woman and men can’t control themselves so if a woman gets sexually assaulted it must be something she did or wore. If that culture is alive and well today in Parliament House Canberra then we’ve learned nothing and forgotten nothing since Bob Hudson first performed “The Newcastle Song” in the 1970s.

2. It might help if Parliament House is declared “dry”. As it is it’s awash with booze. I’ve been to Labor Party functions at the invitation of Labor MPs held in Parliament House and out comes the booze, rivers of the stuff. And all on their parliamentary allowances. Don’t just blame Labor, these are MPs allowances irrespective of party. They all entertain this way. It’s part of being an MP - you network, you entertain guests. Declaring it to be “dry” would be a shock to the system but so was banning smoking. They’ll cope! And women who work there will have a safer working environment.

3. This one’s more difficult but it’s a bullet that has to be bitten. If you get a job as a staffer in Parliament House as a young person straight out of university you’re probably not a permanent public servant seconded from your government department to a ministerial office. It happens but it’s less and less common. A ministerial staffer seconded from the public service as a permanent public servant is in a stronger position because you can always transfer back to your permanent APS position, plus you have all your public service entitlements of holding a sinecure position with all its protections. You can’t be summarily sacked. They can of course flick you back to the public service if they don’t like you but at least you still have a job with a salary, generous sick leave, long service leave, superannuation blah blah blah. It’s for all those reasons that ministerial offices prefer to recruit outside the public service. And that’s where someone like Brittany comes in. Your position is entirely at the discretion of your line manager. You are a casual employee with a capital C. Casual employees in ministerial offices have even fewer rights than casual employees in the gig economy. There’s no such thing as unfair dismissal and no accountability for anything. If you’re a young staffer in your early 20s fresh out of uni and you’re recruited as a junior staffer in a ministerial office you’d feel like you’d hit the big time. And because it’s entirely at the discretion of the minister’s chief of staff they’re going to look at your pedigree. If it’s a Labor minister a substantial ALP and/or union family background would be a standard selection criterion when recruiting a staffer. If it’s a Liberal minister and your family has a business background with connections to the chamber of commerce and service clubs like Rotary and even better still, your parents sent you to an “acceptable” private school and were members of the the Liberal Party then they’d love to have you. It’s only natural I suppose, to judge that if a candidate presents as “one of our lot” or a member of the “tribe” and you needed people in the minister’s office who were politically trustworthy then you’d gravitate towards “our sort”, a person with the “right” background.

Enter Brittany Higgins. The girl with the “right” background. Recruited as a staffer in the office of the Minister for Defence in the Coalition government of Scotty from Marketing.

First impressions count. Somebody like Brittany as a young person in such a highly political environment would be expected to hit the ground networking. And that means booze. If Brittany was told that the people she works with meet after work in a watering hole in Manuka which is just down the road from Parliament House the sub text is pretty clear: you’re expected to be there. And booze. Youth and inexperience did the rest.

Young people make mistakes. It’s the learning that you do as a result of the mistake that counts, and the self development that results. What has resulted is a young woman of enormous strength and courage. We all know who Brittany Higgins is. Isn’t it remarkable that even now the alleged rapist’s identity is still protected! We’re told by his lawyer that the guy is in a “fragile emotional state”. Poor petal. Obviously not as strong as Brittany. Does he still think she “asked for it”?

[ponto]

It is understood that this staffer raper it was premeditated so who to say he didn't slip a mickey finn into Brittany Higgins drink in a ungraded moment which would explain her passing out, and to wake up the bosses office half naked must have extremely traumatic for her.

[pim]

That’s the impression I got too, Ponto. Slip something into her drink, get her plastered, offer to take her home in a taxi but you just have to make a detour to the workplace - just up the road from Manuka, zip up Canberra Avenue and onto State Circle, just a kilometre max - you’ve got a pass, security will let you in, the office is deserted (but you knew that already) and you shag her on the lounge and leave her there unconscious and starkers. Nice one. What a guy.

[Stellar]

It's a pity that Higgins didn't use a bit of common sense.  If she thought her drink had been spiked, why wouldn't she get a urine or blood test asap?  She's definitely had a lot to say about this matter however she hasn't followed up by getting the evidence to back it all up.  

[caskur]

Alcoholics probably join political parties for the free booze.

I hope that rapist pig goes down in flames.

feel sorry for children getting raped right now in Australia... They're not drunk but they'll probably end up drunks if they don't suicide first.

I seriously hate men... a lot!~

[caskur]

Aug 7, 2021 16:27:21 GMT 10 Stellar said:

It's a pity that Higgins didn't use a bit of common sense.  If she thought her drink had been spiked, why wouldn't she get a urine or blood test asap?  She's definitely had a lot to say about this matter however she hasn't followed up by getting the evidence to back it all up.  

I remember WAYYYY back when I was 21, sipping Southern Comfort very, very slowly and then just passed out... Vomiting while I was passed out all over my very expensive sheep skin seat covers. Had no idea I was drinking too much to pass out.

3 times between 15 and 21 I did that accidentally... Blackberry Nip and Lemonade and Vodka and Orange.

I don't drink alcohol though since 21.

However, if you bought me a Triple Orange Cognac ie Grand Marnier, I promise I'll drink it in two days, 3 days if it' a large bottle.

[ponto]

The mistake she made was trusting a conservative work colleague....they are predators the lot of em.

[matte]

Aug 7, 2021 22:14:32 GMT 10 ponto said:

The mistake she made was trusting a conservative work colleague....they are predators the lot of em.

What about Bill Shorten?

[pim]

Distraction alert! “Look! Over there! Labor! Labor! Labor!”

Anything to divert the thread from Brittany Higgins,

[pim]

Bruce Lehrmann identified as man charged with sexual assault of Brittany Higgins

By James Massola and David Crowe August 7, 2021 www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/bruce-lehrmann-identified-as-man-charged-with-sexual-assault-of-brittany-higgins-20210807-p58gql.html

Former Liberal staffer Bruce Lehrmann has been publicly identified as the 26-year-old man charged with sexually assaulting Brittany Higgins in 2019. Mr Lehrmann will fight to defend himself from one charge of sexual intercourse without consent when he appears in the ACT Magistrates Court on September 16.


Former Liberal staffer Bruce Lehrmann.

Mr Lehrmann’s case is listed on the ACT Magistrates Court website to be heard at 9.30am on September 16. His lawyer, barrister John Korn from Sydney firm Ada Evans Chambers, said his client “absolutely and unequivocally denies that any form of sexual activity took place whatsoever. He will defend the charge. The only thing that matters is what the charge alleges and he absolutely, unequivocally denies that any form of sexual activity took place at all.”


Brittany Higgins speaking to the media after meeting with Prime Minister Scott Morrison in April 2021.

ACT Police said in a statement on Friday that a man would “face one charge of sexual intercourse without consent. The maximum penalty for this offence is 12 years’ imprisonment.

“Detectives from ACT Policing’s Criminal Investigations Sexual Assault and Child Abuse Team, the specialist team dedicated to investigating sexual assaults in the ACT, first received a report in April 2019. The investigation remained open and in February 2021 a formal complaint was made. Detectives have since spoken to a number of witnesses and collected evidence as part of the investigation.”

Ms Higgins went public in February with allegations that she had been raped by a colleague in the office of Senator Linda Reynolds in March 2019. Police named Saturday, March 23, 2019, as the date of the alleged rape, which is the same date Ms Higgins named when she spoke to the media. Ms Higgins’ rape allegations rocked the Morrison government, shocked Australia and triggered a cascade of further allegations about bad behaviour and sexual harassment in the corridors of Parliament House.

Her speech at the March 4 Justice on the lawns of Parliament House earlier this year quickly became an iconic moment. It also triggered a raft of reviews and prompted other women to come forward and speak out about similar alleged experiences. Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins is conducting a review of Parliament House’s workplace culture.

In May, Ms Higgins met with Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese in their respective offices in Sydney to discuss what she alleges happened to her.

Mr Morrison responded to another review by senior public servant Stephanie Foster on July 26 with a promise to create an independent complaints mechanism for staff in Parliament for serious incidents within six weeks. The Morrison government in its May federal budget outlined what it called a women’s economic security and safety package, which included extra money for a range of services, as well as appointing Anne Ruston as Minister for Women’s Safety, Jane Hume as Minister for Women’s Economic Security and Amanda Stoker as Assistant Minister for Women.

[Stellar]

Aug 7, 2021 16:46:07 GMT 10 caskur said:

Aug 7, 2021 16:27:21 GMT 10 Stellar said:

It's a pity that Higgins didn't use a bit of common sense.  If she thought her drink had been spiked, why wouldn't she get a urine or blood test asap?  She's definitely had a lot to say about this matter however she hasn't followed up by getting the evidence to back it all up.  

I remember WAYYYY back when I was 21, sipping Southern Comfort very, very slowly and then just passed out... Vomiting while I was passed out all over my very expensive sheep skin seat covers. Had no idea I was drinking too much to pass out.

3 times between 15 and 21 I did that accidentally... Blackberry Nip and Lemonade and Vodka and Orange.

I don't drink alcohol though since 21.

However, if you bought me a Triple Orange Cognac ie Grand Marnier, I promise I'll drink it in two days, 3 days if it' a large bottle.

Well let me tell you that Southern Comfort has a very high alcohol volume - something like 30% - so I can imagine you'd be vomiting! Especially if you didn't mix that drink with something like Coke.



I used to drink beer in the old days until I had to give it up because of the gluten. Nowadays I drink apple cider - it's ok. I like Orchard Thieves, Mr Finch, Monteiths and Bilpin.  Somersby is too sweet.  And you'll never get me to drink Strongbow Cider!!  Ugh. 

But mostly I choose not to drink alcohol at all.  Maybe once or twice a week at the most.