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Post by Gort on Jun 15, 2021 11:10:12 GMT 10
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Post by matte on Jun 21, 2021 20:14:59 GMT 10
Former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo said that "the Chinese Communist Party covered it up, they were conducting bioweapons research".
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 22, 2021 14:05:44 GMT 10
Former Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo said that "the Chinese Communist Party covered it up, they were conducting bioweapons research". Of course they were. ...Did you think they were going to openly confess to that, and disclose all of their research?
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Post by caskur on Jun 22, 2021 14:21:15 GMT 10
According to some around these parts certain countries are as pure as driven snow... OMG, Dog, cat and bat eaters are above all that hostile malevolence.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 23, 2021 9:54:16 GMT 10
According to some around these parts certain countries are as pure as driven snow... OMG, Dog, cat and bat eaters are above all that hostile malevolence. Yeah... they are really nice guys. Just ask Tibet.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 23, 2021 11:53:18 GMT 10
Another one bites the dust...
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 23, 2021 12:20:40 GMT 10
Tech giant "Google" also funded virus research carried out by Wuhan-linked scientist Peter Daszak's EcoHealth Alliance for over a decade. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9712997/Google-funded-research-carried-Wuhan-linked-scientist-Peter-Daszaks-charity.htmlPfft yeah, I'm sure a lab that studies "coronaviruses" and has been responsible for at least 4 leaks since the early 90's has nothing to do with this outbreak... Why are people still defending Fauci and this narrative? Morpheus put it best: "...You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it."
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Post by ponto on Jun 23, 2021 13:18:54 GMT 10
"the RaTG13 genome found in Yunnan Province did not produce a live virus, nor was it sufficiently close in its genetic makeup to the SARS-CoV-2 virus to allow bioengineering to create the hitherto unknown SARS-CoV-2.
According to an account published in the New Yorker, Dr. Baric, who was one of the signatories calling for more investigation into the origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, said, “I really believe that the genetic sequence for sars-CoV-2 really points to a natural-origin event from wildlife.” Perhaps the most renowned and leading expert on coronaviruses in the world, Dr. Baric carefully explained that the repository of viruses in nature is magnitudes higher than what would be found in the library of the Wuhan lab.
Dr. Baric also noted that the SARS-CoV-2 virus is so different than any other known virus, to engineer it “from an ancestral strain” would have been a truly unprecedented feat of molecular biology. “And of course, you don’t know what you’re engineering, because SARS-CoV-2 would not have existed,” Baric said.
Counterfactually, he stated he had seen no evidence that the virus had been collected from the wild, unknown to the lab, and somehow escaped the containment of the WIV. The New Yorker report concluded, “All that is known for sure is that a pathogen that likely originated in bats had transferred species and caused a global pandemic in human beings, perhaps in a way that had only happened a few times in modern medical history or in a way—through a lab—that may never have happened before. Baric’s preference was for the theory that resembled previous outbreaks.”
Edward Holmes
Placing Dr. Baric’s comment in context, a recent article accepted to the journal Cell by Edward Holmes and colleagues, “Identification of novel bat coronaviruses,” sheds light on the evolutionary origins of SARS-CoV-2 and related viruses. The discussion section includes the following passage:
In total, we assembled 24 novel coronavirus genomes from different bat species, including four SARS-CoV-2 like coronaviruses. Additional PCR-based tests revealed the presence of these four viruses in nine individual samples collected in Yunnan province between May and July 2020. Together with the SARS-CoV-2 related virus collected from Thailand in June 2020, these results clearly demonstrate that viruses closely related to SARS-CoV-2 continue to circulate in bat populations, and in some regions might occur at a relatively high frequency.
The authors state that the “Rhinolophus pusillus virus RpYN06 was the closest relative of SARS-CoV-2 in most of the genome, although it possessed a more divergent spike gene.” The other three related SARS-CoV-2 viruses had genetically distinct spike genes that were capable of binding to the human ACE2 receptor, though lacking a furin cleavage site. The study acknowledges that the direct progenitor of SARS-CoV-2 remains unclear. However, the study provides strong circumstantial evidence that implicates a natural origin for the SARS-CoV-2 virus.
Holmes, an evolutionary biologist and virologist at the University of Sydney, Australia, calculates that “the level of genome sequence divergence between SARS-CoV-2 and RaTG13 is equivalent to an average of 50 years (and at least 20 years) of evolutionary change.”
“Hence, SARS-CoV-2 was not derived from RaTG13,” Holmes has written, adding that “the abundance, diversity and evolution of coronaviruses in wildlife strongly suggests that this virus is of natural origin.”
Benhur Lee and Stephen Goldstein
Dr. Benhur Lee is the Ward-Coleman Chair in microbiology at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. His lab focuses on explaining how viruses co-opt basic cell biological processes to complete their life cycles and the numerous strategies used by viruses to propagate themselves.
Dr. Benhur Lee
In response to the claim by Nicholas Wade in his attack on Andersen’s “proximal origin” study that the Wuhan lab used an unpublished coronavirus DNA backbone derived from RaTG13 as the basis for engineering a new and deadly virus, the Benhur Lee Lab offers a pointed reply, arguing the inherent improbability of such a course of action:
To reiterate, most of SARS-CoV-2 comes from a bat coronavirus closely related to RaTG13. This virus is not known to cause disease in humans. If we were virus engineers (and this actually happens to be my job in the Benhur Lee lab), we would need to: Make a virus backbone from a never-before-seen virus that looks like, but isn’t, RaTG13, without having any reason to believe it would be a better starting place than a previously characterized virus (like the original SARS-CoV). [Then] spend months to years building a system that is easy to engineer (reverse-genetics system) when there are other virus backbones readily available. [Afterwards], choose the RBD region from an unknown pangolin coronavirus even though all computer models show it should be suboptimal at binding ACE2, and show that it binds well in spite of the models. All of these steps sound like bad ideas from a scientist’s perspective. There were easier ways to engineer a coronavirus, and no one would have rationally chosen either the bat virus backbone or the pangolin portion of the spike protein. Therefore, SARS-CoV-2 is unlikely to be man-made from pieces of other viruses —we have zero evidence that any person or lab has attempted even one part of this process.
In other words, no virus engineer would have proceeded in the fashion alleged by the promoters of the “lab leak” theory. The random variation of natural selection provides a far superior explanation of the actual course of development of the virus, and given that we are only 18 months into the pandemic, the “gaps” in this explanation simply reflect the actual development of scientific knowledge, not some nefarious conspiracy.
According to the lab’s hypothesis
The available data suggests a two-step process that may have given rise to SARS-CoV-2. 1) A bat coronavirus likely infected an intermediary animal (potentially a Malayan pangolin) where it recombined with a non-bat coronavirus. Then, 2) over time, either in the intermediary animal or while in humans, SARS-CoV-2 developed additional mutations—a polybasic cleavage site and a nearby O-linked glycan addition site. [More on this below]
The Benhur Lee Lab adds that SARS-CoV-2 either acquired these gains before spillover into humans or acquired them while developing in humans. These hypotheses are in agreement with Kristian Andersen’s conclusions.
As previously stated, the RaTG13 virus lacks the furin cleavage site. The Benhur Lee Lab noted
a hypothetical generation of SARS-CoV-2 by cell culture or animal passage would have required prior isolation of a progenitor virus with very high genetic similarity, which has not been described. The subsequent generation of a polybasic cleavage site would have then required repeated passage in cell culture or animals with ACE2 receptors like those of humans, but such work has also not previously been described.
In other words, the Wuhan lab has not reported any of the intermediate steps that would be required to facilitate the creation of SARS-CoV-2, steps that would have been routinely reported in previous publications, because no one, either at the Wuhan lab or in its international professional audience, would have recognized this as creating precursors of a deadly virus. The trajectory from RaTG13 to SARS-CoV-2 is so complicated and unlikely, involving, by Holmes’ estimate, nearly 1,200 separate edits to the genome, that not even natural selection, with billions upon billions of such “edits,” can account for it.
A similar assessment of the natural origins of SARS-CoV-2 appeared last week in Foreign Policy magazine, hardly a bastion of hostility to American imperialism or sympathy to the Chinese government. The article by contributor Justin Ling carries the headline, “The Lab Leak Theory Doesn’t Hold Up.”
Ling points out that the apparent geographical path of SARS-CoV-2, from bat caves in southern Yunnan province to animals sold at a wet market in central China (Wuhan) to human beings, far from being improbable, as claimed by Nicholas Wade and other “lab leak” advocates, is nearly identical to that followed by the original SARS outbreak in 2002.
He cites the views of Stephen Goldstein, who studies evolutionary virology at the University of Utah, and denies that there is “growing evidence” to support the lab leak hypothesis.
Commenting on the findings of Edward Holmes, Goldstein regards the number of changes required to transform RaTG13 into SARS-CoV-2 as an insurmountable hurdle. “Cramming 50 years of evolution into eight is impossible,” Goldstein said. “Forcing 1,000 nucleotide changes—just, no.”
Goldstein also rejects the argument that the furin cleavage site on SARS-CoV2 demonstrates its artificial or engineered character, one of the main pseudo-scientific claims of Wade & Co. “You cannot, in a normal cell culture, maintain the furin cleavage site,” he told Ling. Instead of the furin cleavage site being particularly well adapted for humans, the opposite is true.
“No virologist would use that cleavage site,” he told Ling, adding that in the lab, the cleavage site has a tendency to delete itself, and to employ it would “require doing things differently than everyone does them,” and would actually slow down replication of the virus. “We’re not good enough, in virology, to make the perfect virus,” Goldstein concludes.
Finally, it is worth briefly discussing the O-linked glycan modifications necessary for the function of SARS-CoV-2 virus, mentioned by the Benhur Lee Lab. In the “Proximal origins” paper, Dr. Andersen’s team had noted that the O-linked glycan sites on the SARS-CoV-2 virus aid it to evade the host’s immune system by masking the virus. Other functions include helping the virus to bind to the host cell and enter and leave the cell after replicating itself.
A July 2020 article published in Science, analyzing the spike protein of the SARS-CoV-2 virus for vaccine development, notes that these “O-linked glycan sites” develop under the pressure of natural selection. In order to acquire them the SARS-CoV-2 virus needed the selective pressure of being exposed to a living organism with an intact immune system. The generation of the “O-linked glycans” is unlikely to have occurred from cell-culture passage in a laboratory. The virus would have to be passed through animals to enhance these particular functions.
As Ling noted in the Foreign Policy article, paraphrasing Dr. Goldstein, if the scientists at Wuhan had attempted a serial animal passage experiment, meaning to have the virus replicate and mutate in animals until an efficient and suitable virus was created, “The lab would need to run a veritable petting zoo of different animals to perfect this kind of zoonotic transmission. And it still doesn’t account for the decades of necessary evolution. Prior to the outbreak in December 2019, nothing closely resembling the COVID-19 virus was reported in any lab. Since it has emerged, it has taken hundreds of millions of infections to net just a handful of serious mutations and variants.”
Conclusion
In five years of extensive work at the Wuhan lab, Dr. Shi Zhengli explained that her team discovered only 11 full-length genomes of SARS-related CoV. This speaks to the complexity of such research. Only three live viruses have been collected in the nearly 20 years since the SARS-CoV-1 epidemic.
It also took more than 15 years after SARS-CoV-1 was discovered for the animal origin to be identified. There is nothing unusual in this. For instance, Ebola is thought to have a zoonotic origin (derived from nature), but its natural reservoir remains unknown 40 years later. The argument that the pool for SARS-CoV-2 has yet to be uncovered and, therefore, by Wade’s troubled logic, it must have been manufactured in a Chinese lab, is a false one generated for political purposes.
As to the three WIV workers who allegedly fell ill with respiratory illnesses in November, the WHO-convened global study of the origins of SARS-CoV-2 offers a critical glimpse into the months leading into the pandemic in Wuhan. Using surveillance data on influenza-like illnesses and severe respiratory illnesses, they showed that laboratory cases of influenza began to climb quickly in early November.
It was only in early to the middle of December when unusual respiratory illnesses began to rise in the city. Corroborating this was the finding that excess deaths (deaths compared to previous years’ averages) did not start to climb sharply until the second week in January of 2020, centered in the area around the Hunan seafood market before expanding into the wider region. Additionally, the report comments that several international conferences were held in Wuhan from September to December 2019 without confirmation that any superspreading events had occurred as a byproduct of these gatherings.
Map shows the distance from the Wuhan lab to the Hunan market where COVID-19 was first detected, a distance of eight miles
Aside from Dr. Shi’s claim that all employees at WIV had tested negative and there were no infections reported at the institute, given the asymptomatic nature of COVID-19 infections, if in November three WIV workers were infected with SARS-CoV-2, it would most likely have led to a cluster of outbreaks at the institute, necessitating the closure of the facility for infection control and monitoring, well before the epidemic in Wuhan. The foreign press would have immediately reported such an event. These facts would have also come to the attention of the US intelligence community, the World Health Organization, and leaked by dissidents.
This review of the science demonstrates that the hypothesis identified as most likely in March-April 2020—a natural origin of SARS-CoV-2—remains after more than a year the most plausible. No evidence has been brought forward to undermine it. The campaign in support of the “lab leak” theory has no significant scientific basis.
As the World Socialist Web Site has explained:
The promotion of the lab-origin theory is driven by political conditions and social interests, motivated by two interrelated purposes. First, it aims to divert attention from the actions of the US and other governments in implementing policies that led to deaths on a massive scale. As the public begins to recover from the overwhelming shock of the pandemic, there will be demands for explanations for why so many people died, along with accountability for those responsible. ... Second, the Wuhan lab lie seeks to drum up nationalist hatred to support the Biden administration’s central strategic aim: the preparation for economic and potentially military conflict with China.
Efforts to assist the scientists in their collaboration to identify the source of the virus and prepare for future pandemic pathogens are of vital global interest. The bourgeois press campaign maligning the Chinese scientists and their colleagues in the United States and elsewhere sabotages such collaboration and undermines both science and public health all over the world for the most nefarious purposes.
As the WSWS stated early in this malignant campaign,
The structure and methods of the “Wuhan lab” conspiracy theory are highly similar to other conspiracy theories promoted for political purposes, with which the propagandists in Washington and other world capitals are very familiar. ... The Chinese government, for its part, cannot but interpret the promotion of this lie as preparation for war, responding in a way that will make escalation more likely, creating a deadly cycle of militarization. A military conflict between the United States and China—the largest economies and militaries in the world—would have catastrophic consequences for all of humanity.
This warning is entirely vindicated by this review of the scientific literature on the origins of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19."....https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/06/23/sci3-j23.html
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Post by Gort on Jun 23, 2021 13:35:05 GMT 10
^^^^^^^^^^^ |||||||||||||||||World Socialist Web Site.
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Post by ponto on Jun 23, 2021 21:38:01 GMT 10
I expected the cannot refute the science so go for the messenger...conservative fuckwitism will lead into war.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 24, 2021 3:06:37 GMT 10
Having one hand up your ass reduces the risk of Covid-19 by 50%, as one is 1/2 as likely to touch their face. That's science! *Now don't be like those 'terrible' RW and refuse to follow the science! You wouldn't want to discredit yourself by being a known hypocrite just one post after claiming the moral high ground, would you?😉 Protect yourself, Ponto!
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 24, 2021 3:23:32 GMT 10
I expected the cannot refute the science so go for the messenger...conservative fuckwitism will lead into war. Dude, you are so right! It would be unethical for us to fight the rapist off, and thus be seen as a 'bully' to the entire world! No, they shouldn't be fought; they ought to be 'thanked'. For giving us the vigorous ass-pounding we didn't know we needed! ...We should just quietly join the rest of it's rape victims, such as Tibet. We all know China's character is beyond reproach. (Oh my... I almost said that with a straight face.)😆 Lol... There was no lab leak in socialist china, says socialist website. Next up: Media website submitted as evidence as why the media can be trusted. 🤣 You really need to do better, ponto.
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Post by caskur on Jun 24, 2021 4:20:41 GMT 10
“Hence, SARS-CoV-2 was not derived from RaTG13,” Holmes has written, adding that “the abundance, diversity and evolution of coronaviruses in wildlife strongly suggests that this virus is of natural origin.” Let's say I believe SARS-CoV-2 is from a natural origin. And it is possible that the lab scientist/s were working on live SARS-CoV-2 virus that attached itself to the person/s who then went to the Wuhan wet markets shopping for dinner, dropping virus all over the place. There is no proof which does not mean there is no evidence. I have watched many a forensic science documentary to know "EVIDENCE," doesn't always mean it doesn't exist, it just means it hasn't manifested itself yet. And I personally think it was an accident it escaped the lab but believe now due to video confessions, they are/were trying to make bioweapons.
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Post by caskur on Jun 24, 2021 4:34:07 GMT 10
Trying to make bioweapons with the live natural SARS-CoV-2 virus and NOT succeeding still doesn't mean the natural virus didn't escaped the lab. And how come no one ever mentions 100s of thousands of minks were put down?... What happened to mink meat once their fur was removed? Did the meat go into making dog biscuits made in China?
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 24, 2021 5:08:27 GMT 10
And if nothing was being hidden, what's with the armed guards preventing access to the facility?
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Post by caskur on Jun 24, 2021 5:18:50 GMT 10
And if nothing was being hidden, what's with the armed guards preventing access to the facility? Well I guess if it was my lab, I wouldn't want evidence illegally planted. I would put guards there. Unless we get a confession we will never know for sure. Too much time is wasted on this. Mirrors and smoke screens.
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Post by ponto on Jun 24, 2021 6:34:10 GMT 10
There are numerous possibilities and nothing definitive, as it is the Lab leak theory has no significant scientific evidence, as what I have always stated and remains so.
It took 40 years to find where Ebola came from, and personally I think the virus came from the Hunan wet market from eating stressed wildlife as if it came from the Lab there would have been many workers infected, there wasn't.
"As to the three WIV workers who allegedly fell ill with respiratory illnesses in November, the WHO-convened global study of the origins of SARS-CoV-2 offers a critical glimpse into the months leading into the pandemic in Wuhan. Using surveillance data on influenza-like illnesses and severe respiratory illnesses, they showed that laboratory cases of influenza began to climb quickly in early November.
It was only in early to the middle of December when unusual respiratory illnesses began to rise in the city. Corroborating this was the finding that excess deaths (deaths compared to previous years’ averages) did not start to climb sharply until the second week in January of 2020, centered in the area around the Hunan seafood market before expanding into the wider region. Additionally, the report comments that several international conferences were held in Wuhan from September to December 2019 without confirmation that any superspreading events had occurred as a byproduct of these gatherings."
Science has long stated or predicted the evidence for a pandemic virus is increasing from chowing down on wildlife that is under stress. From a number of obvious factors that are human induced, land clearing that is releasing pathogens, loss of habitat stressing animals and eco systems, climatic changes on the environment, and also the potential of unknown pathogens released from the melting perma- frost in the arctic tundra areas.
The only certainty is not to get into the RW Hawk political hooplah that will follow a dangerous path to war, as it has done many times before leading to nothing but a bloody morass of death and destruction as the Hawks enjoy because they are deranged ideology fuckwits....a war with China everyone loses....certain.
And how did we end up on this chaotic path, because of neo liberalist economist pursuing cheap Labor, neo liberalism that is now turning into proto fascism wanting to destroy the monster it created.
We took the wrong steps years ago by ignoring and deriding the peaceful path of global democratic socialism.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 24, 2021 12:28:21 GMT 10
Scientist Finds Early Virus Sequences That Had Been Mysteriously DeletedBy rooting through files stored on Google Cloud, a researcher says he recovered 13 early coronavirus sequences that had disappeared from a database last year. About a year ago, genetic sequences from more than 200 virus samples from early cases of Covid-19 in Wuhan disappeared from an online scientific database. Now, by rooting through files stored on Google Cloud, a researcher in Seattle reports that he has recovered 13 of those original sequences — intriguing new information for discerning when and how the virus may have spilled over from a bat or another animal into humans. The new analysis, released on Tuesday, bolsters earlier suggestions that a variety of coronaviruses may have been circulating in Wuhan before the initial outbreaks linked to animal and seafood markets in December 2019. As the Biden administration investigates the contested origins of the virus, known as SARS-CoV-2, the study neither strengthens nor discounts the hypothesis that the pathogen leaked out of a famous Wuhan lab. But it does raise questions about why original sequences were deleted, and suggests that there may be more revelations to recover from the far corners of the internet. “This is a great piece of sleuth work for sure, and it significantly advances efforts to understand the origin of SARS-CoV-2,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona who was not involved in the study. Jesse Bloom, a virologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center who wrote the new report, called the deletion of these sequences suspicious. It “seems likely that the sequences were deleted to obscure their existence,” he wrote in the paper, which has not yet been peer-reviewed or published in a scientific journal. Dr. Bloom and Dr. Worobey belong to an outspoken group of scientists who have called for more research into how the pandemic began. In a letter published in May, they complained that there wasn’t enough information to determine whether it was more likely that a lab leak spread the coronavirus, or that it leapt to humans from contact with an infected animal outside of a lab. The genetic sequences of viral samples hold crucial clues about how SARS-CoV-2 shifted to our species from another animal, most likely a bat. Most precious of all are sequences from early in the pandemic, because they take scientists closer to the original spillover event. As Dr. Bloom was reviewing what genetic data had been published by various research groups, he came across a March 2020 study with a spreadsheet that included information on 241 genetic sequences collected by scientists at Wuhan University. The spreadsheet indicated that the scientists had uploaded the sequences to an online database called the Sequence Read Archive, managed by the U.S. government’s National Library of Medicine. But when Dr. Bloom looked for the Wuhan sequences in the database earlier this month, his only result was “no item found.” Puzzled, he went back to the spreadsheet for any further clues. It indicated that the 241 sequences had been collected by a scientist named Aisi Fu at Renmin Hospital in Wuhan. Searching medical literature, Dr. Bloom eventually found another study posted online in March 2020 by Dr. Fu and colleagues, describing a new experimental test for SARS-CoV-2. The Chinese scientists published it in a scientific journal three months later. In that study, the scientists wrote that they had looked at 45 samples from nasal swabs taken “from outpatients with suspected Covid-19 early in the epidemic.” They then searched for a portion of SARS-CoV-2’s genetic material in the swabs. The researchers did not publish the actual sequences of the genes they fished out of the samples. Instead, they only published some mutations in the viruses. But a number of clues indicated to Dr. Bloom that the samples were the source of the 241 missing sequences. The papers included no explanation as to why the sequences had been uploaded to the Sequence Read Archive, only to disappear later. Perusing the archive, Dr. Bloom figured out that many of the sequences were stored as files on Google Cloud. Each sequence was contained in a file in the cloud, and the names of the files all shared the same basic format, he reported. Dr. Bloom swapped in the code for a missing sequence from Wuhan. Suddenly, he had the sequence. All told, he managed to recover 13 sequences from the cloud this way. With this new data, Dr. Bloom looked back once more at the early stages of the pandemic. He combined the 13 sequences with other published sequences of early coronaviruses, hoping to make progress on building the family tree of SARS-CoV-2. Working out all the steps by which SARS-CoV-2 evolved from a bat virus has been a challenge because scientists still have a limited number of samples to study. Some of the earliest samples come from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, where an outbreak occurred in December 2019. But those market viruses actually have three extra mutations that are missing from SARS-CoV-2 samples collected weeks later. In other words, those later viruses look more like coronaviruses found in bats, supporting the idea that there was some early lineage of the virus that did not pass through the seafood market. Dr. Bloom found that the deleted sequences he recovered from the cloud also lack those extra mutations. “They’re three steps more similar to the bat coronaviruses than the viruses from the Huanan fish market,” Dr. Bloom said. This suggests, he said, that by the time SARS-CoV-2 reached the market, it had been circulating for a while in Wuhan or beyond. The market viruses, he argued, aren’t representative of the full diversity of coronaviruses already loose in late 2019. “Maybe our picture of what was present early in Wuhan from what has been sequenced might be somewhat biased,” he said. In his report, Dr. Bloom acknowledged that this conclusion would have to be confirmed with a deeper analysis of the virus sequences. Dr. Worobey said that he and his colleagues are working on a large-scale study of SARS-CoV-2 genes to better understand its origin and that they’ll now add Dr. Bloom’s 13 recovered sequences. “These additional data will play a big role in that effort,” Dr. Worobey said. It’s not clear why this valuable information went missing in the first place. Scientists can request that files be deleted by sending an email to the managers of the Sequence Read Archive. The National Library of Medicine, which manages the archive, said that the 13 sequences were removed last summer. “These SARS-CoV-2 sequences were submitted for posting in SRA in March 2020 and subsequently requested to be withdrawn by the submitting investigator in June 2020,” said Renate Myles, a spokeswoman for the National Institutes of Health. She said that the investigator, whom she did not name, told the archive managers that the sequences were being updated and would be added to a different database. But Dr. Bloom has searched every database he knows of, and has yet to find them. “Obviously I can’t rule out that the sequences are on some other database or web page somewhere, but I have not been able to find them any of the obvious places I’ve looked,” he said. Three of the co-authors of the 2020 testing study that produced the 13 sequences did not immediately respond to emails inquiring about Dr. Bloom’s finding. That study did not give contact information for another co-author, Dr. Fu, who was also named on the spreadsheet from the other study. Some scientists are skeptical that there is anything sinister behind the removal of the sequences. “I don’t really understand how this points to a cover-up,” said Stephen Goldstein, a virologist at the University of Utah. Dr. Goldstein noted that the testing paper listed the individual mutations the Wuhan researchers found in their tests. Although the full sequences are no longer in the archive, the key information has been public for over a year, he said. It was just tucked away in a format that is hard for researchers to find. “We all missed this relatively obscure paper,” Dr. Goldstein said. “You can’t really say why they were removed,” Dr. Bloom acknowledged in an interview. “You can say that the practical consequence of removing them was that people didn’t notice they existed.” He also noted that the Chinese government ordered the destruction of a number of early samples of the virus and barred the publication of papers on the coronavirus without its approval. For his part, Dr. Worobey still wants answers. “I hope we hear from the authors who generated, but then deleted, these crucial sequences so we can understand more about their motivation for doing so,” he said. “It certainly is strange at face value and really demands an explanation.” Regardless of what happened to these 13 sequences, Dr. Bloom now wonders what other clues might be discovered online. In order to reconstruct the origin of Covid-19, all those clues potentially matter. “Ideally, we need to try to find as many other early sequences as possible,” he said. “And I think this study suggests that we should look everywhere.” www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/science/coronavirus-sequences.htmlIt's very suspicious that information is just "disappearing", and reappearing now that an investigation is taking place... If this were a crime scene, there would be far more accountability...
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Post by caskur on Jun 24, 2021 13:42:27 GMT 10
. And how did we end up on this chaotic path, because of neo liberalist economist pursuing cheap Labor, neo liberalism that is now turning into proto fascism wanting to destroy the monster it created. We took the wrong steps years ago by ignoring and deriding the peaceful path of global democratic socialism. Actually the United Nations is mainly made up of socialist nations. Socialism is responsible for more deaths than all the other ideologies combined. Mankind has had 6,000 years to create your perfect ideology of global democratic socialism and failed dismally. So basically it doesn't work and will never happen. China is a global threat to the animals on the planet. If they aren't eating them, they're poisoning them with plastic pollution and they skin animals alive. They are worse than barbaric.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Jun 24, 2021 13:50:20 GMT 10
I suppose those "disappearing files" have a natural explanation, too.
They must've occurred naturally... In bats.😄
..."Science!"
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Post by ponto on Jun 24, 2021 14:27:41 GMT 10
There was nothing conclusive in that article, scientist from around the globe share there information, and as Dr Goldstein states" Some (I would say most) scientists are skeptical that there is anything sinister behind the removal of the sequences. “I don’t really understand how this points to a cover-up,” said Stephen Goldstein, a virologist at the University of Utah.
Dr. Goldstein noted that the testing paper listed the individual mutations the Wuhan researchers found in their tests. Although the full sequences are no longer in the archive, the key information has been public for over a year, he said. It was just tucked away in a format that is hard for researchers to find."
Just another fizzer that will fade and be gone like all conspiracist theories juveniles latch on to.
Cas with the movie star lookin' husband...who reminds me of actor wots his name....arrrr...could it be Don Knotts..?
Socialism is NOT responsible for more human deaths...RW furphy.
Capitalism is responsible for more human deaths than any other form of government.
The denial and rationing of capitalist insurance run health care in the United States kills 45,000 people in the United States every single year as an example.
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Post by caskur on Jun 24, 2021 14:55:25 GMT 10
There was nothing conclusive in that article, scientist from around the globe share there information, and as Dr Goldstein states" Some (I would say most) scientists are skeptical that there is anything sinister behind the removal of the sequences. “I don’t really understand how this points to a cover-up,” said Stephen Goldstein, a virologist at the University of Utah. Dr. Goldstein noted that the testing paper listed the individual mutations the Wuhan researchers found in their tests. Although the full sequences are no longer in the archive, the key information has been public for over a year, he said. It was just tucked away in a format that is hard for researchers to find." Just another fizzer that will fade and be gone like all conspiracist theories juveniles latch on to. Cas with the movie star lookin' husband...who reminds me of actor wots his name....arrrr...could it be Don Knotts..? Socialism is NOT responsible for more human deaths...RW furphy. Capitalism is responsible for more human deaths than any other form of government. The denial and rationing of capitalist insurance run health care in the United States kills 45,000 people in the United States every single year as an example. you are like a Jehovah's Witness... eveything good comes from God, everything bad, comes from Satan.
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Post by pim on Jun 24, 2021 15:03:13 GMT 10
No, that’s Matt’s line.
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Post by caskur on Jun 24, 2021 19:09:14 GMT 10
No, that’s Matt’s line. Socialsm is his God, Cons are Satan the devil... He doesn't recognize grey areas
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Post by pim on Jun 24, 2021 19:31:23 GMT 10
Nor do you Toots! You bandy about this loose term “socialism” in a fuzzy way. Extremist right wing fruitcakes think they know what “socialism” means but they’re as clueless and as ignorant of the meaning of “socialism” as they are of the meaning of “Christianity”. Even though they reject the one and claim to “own” the other. Now if you’ll excuse me I need to watch the ABC News!
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