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Post by Occam's Spork on Feb 19, 2021 6:58:30 GMT 10
Watch as Trumps lawyer explains:
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Post by bender on Feb 19, 2021 7:32:26 GMT 10
Bullshit Spork. Just because you're self delusional doesn't mean that everybody else is.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Feb 19, 2021 8:42:02 GMT 10
Did you not play the clip? Do you suppose that I staged the whole thing myself? You speak of delusions, but really... P.S. Your outrage is indicative of cognitive dissonance. Perhaps you should to reassess your objectivity.
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Post by bender on Feb 19, 2021 10:18:16 GMT 10
What it comes down to Spork is that you've had your chance and instead you've gone for loopy conspiracy theories. At some point when you behave as you have here, people will just dismiss everything you have to say because history shows that you're a compulsive fabricator.
You've reached that point and no number of silly memes is going to bring you back.....
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Post by Occam's Spork on Feb 19, 2021 10:28:48 GMT 10
...And yet here you are.
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Post by caskur on Feb 20, 2021 7:32:35 GMT 10
"conservatives" have really let their side down...I doubt they will ever recuperate.. The leftists will rule the next decade.
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Post by ponto on Feb 20, 2021 8:26:54 GMT 10
The conservatives have been for years trying sway peoples opinion with misinformation, you may say well that is just politics, which is true what is different it is through social media that they have been able to reach a broader audience, with the objective to manipulate the peoples thinking into just one homologous RW society.
America is a prime example, Americans are a fairly civil ignorant society where such groups as QAnon and its conspiracies ideology that the world is governed by pedos etc and evangelistic pentecostal prophets announcing Trump is the messiah and will return to power in March, why when Trump is just a self centered arse, or the anti vaxxers and their crap, and the nation that spawned the biggest hoax of all...climate change denial....all RW machinations ending in division and people with the realisation they have been lied to and are angry..there will be more anger when Trump doesn't ascend to power at Gods will in March....certainly the world needs to change from RW conspiracies creating division and a toxic environment.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 19, 2021 1:43:35 GMT 10
The conservatives have been for years trying sway peoples opinion with misinformation, you may say well that is just politics, which is true what is different it is through social media that they have been able to reach a broader audience, with the objective to manipulate the peoples thinking into just one homologous RW society. America is a prime example, Americans are a fairly civil ignorant society where such groups as QAnon and its conspiracies ideology that the world is governed by pedos etc and evangelistic pentecostal prophets announcing Trump is the messiah and will return to power in March, why when Trump is just a self centered arse, or the anti vaxxers and their crap, and the nation that spawned the biggest hoax of all...climate change denial....all RW machinations ending in division and people with the realisation they have been lied to and are angry..there will be more anger when Trump doesn't ascend to power at Gods will in March....certainly the world needs to change from RW conspiracies creating division and a toxic environment. HG Wells proved that he could manipulate the thoughts and emotions of the public using the media to purport a false narrative. The Liberal media is doing that now. And your prejudices are helping them. Look at how you are categorizing people. That is not rational. I offered you evidence that the media was tampering with what was being said, and you won't view or even consider their unethical practice! Considering only one side of the evidence is a belief in 'propaganda'. And you really need to stop touting your opinion as "fact". You are proving yourself to be more and more brainwashed every day.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 19, 2021 3:48:23 GMT 10
Bullshit Spork. Just because you're self delusional doesn't mean that everybody else is. You can deny what is right in front of you, but that only makes you look the fool. The media only showed you what they wanted you to see. This video is proof!
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Post by ponto on Mar 19, 2021 9:07:18 GMT 10
The media is manipulating the people, that's obvious, its having the intelligence and knowledge to disseminate between fact and fiction that differentiates.
Trump has been revving up the crowd long before capitol hill, and while injected the word peacefully at times to be careful most of his speeches was about election fraud and patriots need to be strong to take back the country, Rudi Giuliani was more blunt telling Trump supporters to fight, Trump also announced he would be there with them at the protest....he wasn't he knew exactly what he was doing....inciting the crowd to revolt, and facts are they did attack Capitol Hill in the belief they were saving democracy....you cannot deny that.
And there was Trump calling for postal votes to be banned as illegal.....but only in Democrat seats, Republican seats because they were going his way although the same system were AOK, as with postal votes in Florida state election all good.
One would have to be fairly dumb not to see that as a sham....and yet I will repeat a good many Americans are civil ignorant easily manipulated, and there are many Americans who would not know where Australia is or many other countries, ignorant to west countries that have universal health, its considered socialism they are that brainwashed with laissez faire capitalism.
Carry on with your conspiracies, wearing mask is a hoax to help stopping the spread of covid is against civil liberties, people are not dying from covid, women's right to legally terminate a unwanted pregnancy is akin to the holocaust and so on....alien reptiles have infiltrated the judiciary system and democrats and they keep children under Capitol Hill to suck on their blood....whacko stuff for the poorly educated gullible ignorant.
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Post by bender on Mar 19, 2021 9:32:53 GMT 10
Bullshit Spork. Just because you're self delusional doesn't mean that everybody else is. You can deny what is right in front of you, but that only makes you look the fool. The media only showed you what they wanted you to see. This video is proof! You've really got to chuckle at the unashamed hypocrisy of Spork. "The media only showed you what they wanted you to see" therefore you believed a lie (which I assume is the implication of Sporks impassioned appeal), but then continues with a plea to only watch what the media told Spork to watch and then it will all become plain. Spork, you really are (in the words of one of Australia's greatest political minds) a low altitude flyer. Truly, you are all tip and no iceberg...âŚ..
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 20, 2021 3:36:16 GMT 10
. Carry on with your conspiracies, wearing mask is a hoax to help stopping the spread of covid is against civil liberties,
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Post by pim on Mar 20, 2021 5:45:42 GMT 10
Wearing a mask to help stop the spread is against civil liberties? So is wearing a seat belt in a car. But we do it. This sort of phony "what about my civil liberties" snake oil, and the Australian response which is to buckle up in a car and to wear the mask and to do so cheerfully explodes the myth of so-called Australian larrikinism, that we are a people who chafe against authority. In fact the opposite is true. We are a compliant people who grumble against authority but at the same time expect someone to be in charge who knows what they're doing. So when a policy is explained and people can see the point of it, they'll happily go along with it. So we pay the Medicare levy without complaint and never let it be forgotten that John Howard won an election in 1998 with a core promise to introduce a new tax! The GST. No more proof than that is needed that we are a compliant people who even have a streak of authoritarianism. Which is why Occam's jibe about wearing a mask violates civil liberties cuts no ice Down Under.
Incidentally because we did comply with mask-wearing and submitted to the lockdowns which included not just our international borders but our internal (state) borders as well, we're now in a position to dispense with mask-wearing and our state borders are re-opening. This stuff works.
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Post by ponto on Mar 20, 2021 7:33:32 GMT 10
I would say Occam Spork is only feeding himself news from social media...and thinks universal health is radical socialism...such is the thinking in Nth America.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 20, 2021 9:58:48 GMT 10
I would say Occam Spork is only feeding himself news from social media...and thinks universal health is radical socialism...such is the thinking in Nth America. Dude... Canada has universal Healthcare. Educate yourself and stop relying on naive stereotypes!
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 20, 2021 10:01:36 GMT 10
Wearing a mask to help stop the spread is against civil liberties? So is wearing a seat belt in a car. But we do it. This sort of phony "what about my civil liberties" snake oil, and the Australian response which is to buckle up in a car and to wear the mask and to do so cheerfully explodes the myth of so-called Australian larrikinism, that we are a people who chafe against authority. In fact the opposite is true. We are a compliant people who grumble against authority but at the same time expect someone to be in charge who knows what they're doing. So when a policy is explained and people can see the point of it, they'll happily go along with it. So we pay the Medicare levy without complaint and never let it be forgotten that John Howard won an election in 1998 with a core promise to introduce a new tax! The GST. No more proof than that is needed that we are a compliant people who even have a streak of authoritarianism. Which is why Occam's jibe about wearing a mask violates civil liberties cuts no ice Down Under. Incidentally because we did comply with mask-wearing and submitted to the lockdowns which included not just our international borders but our internal (state) borders as well, we're now in a position to dispense with mask-wearing and our state borders are re-opening. This stuff works. They speak out of turn. I wear a mask, as a courtesy to others. I just don't think there is a point to it. We've never done this nonsense for the flu or any other stupid virus! I'm more agitated by the year long lockdown, after they promised a 13-day shut down 'to slow the spread'. And that was last march I'm irritated with the ever-emerging inconsistencies of the WHO. Something doesn't sit well with me about all of this Covid-19 nonsense. Fauci lied to us, our governments lied to us, the media is continuing to lie to us. And now anyone who is justifiably suspicious after all of this, is now the enemy?!
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Post by ponto on Mar 20, 2021 11:10:25 GMT 10
Universal health as in people thinking of others in society....wearing a mask universally helps all as the inconvenience of lockdowns....and Canada has a universal health care system, a universal known, exception being Americans.
No government called for the pandemic to happen, and health warnings are not static as the virus is fairly contagious, ....yet all governments were forewarned of the possibility of nasty viruses being spawned as humans interact with stressed wildlife.
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Post by bender on Mar 20, 2021 19:20:38 GMT 10
Wearing a mask to help stop the spread is against civil liberties? So is wearing a seat belt in a car. But we do it. This sort of phony "what about my civil liberties" snake oil, and the Australian response which is to buckle up in a car and to wear the mask and to do so cheerfully explodes the myth of so-called Australian larrikinism, that we are a people who chafe against authority. In fact the opposite is true. We are a compliant people who grumble against authority but at the same time expect someone to be in charge who knows what they're doing. So when a policy is explained and people can see the point of it, they'll happily go along with it. So we pay the Medicare levy without complaint and never let it be forgotten that John Howard won an election in 1998 with a core promise to introduce a new tax! The GST. No more proof than that is needed that we are a compliant people who even have a streak of authoritarianism. Which is why Occam's jibe about wearing a mask violates civil liberties cuts no ice Down Under. Incidentally because we did comply with mask-wearing and submitted to the lockdowns which included not just our international borders but our internal (state) borders as well, we're now in a position to dispense with mask-wearing and our state borders are re-opening. This stuff works. They speak out of turn. I wear a mask, as a courtesy to others. I just don't think there is a point to it. We've never done this nonsense for the flu or any other stupid virus! I'm more agitated by the year long lockdown, after they promised a 13-day shut down 'to slow the spread'. And that was last march I'm irritated with the ever-emerging inconsistencies of the WHO. Something doesn't sit well with me about all of this Covid-19 nonsense. Fauci lied to us, our governments lied to us, the media is continuing to lie to us. And now anyone who is justifiably suspicious after all of this, is now the enemy?! You're not the enemy Spork, just an annoyance...
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 23, 2021 3:15:21 GMT 10
They speak out of turn. I wear a mask, as a courtesy to others. I just don't think there is a point to it. We've never done this nonsense for the flu or any other stupid virus! I'm more agitated by the year long lockdown, after they promised a 13-day shut down 'to slow the spread'. And that was last march I'm irritated with the ever-emerging inconsistencies of the WHO. Something doesn't sit well with me about all of this Covid-19 nonsense. Fauci lied to us, our governments lied to us, the media is continuing to lie to us. And now anyone who is justifiably suspicious after all of this, is now the enemy?! You're not the enemy Spork, just an annoyance...
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Post by ponto on Mar 23, 2021 4:08:27 GMT 10
You haven't shown any proof...Trumps lawyers video evidence is not the full picture of events and Trumps chaotic presidency.
Trump's Capitol Hill rioters were there under lies promoted by Trump as an incitement to sedition ...."Stop the Steal" and "Fight" the armed white supremacist were told.
400 Capitol Hill rioters are facing the US judiciary many for sedition are possible 20 year prison sentences, harsh penalties introduced by Trump on BLM peaceful protestors pulling down white supremacist statutes that he called the national guard on, not so the guard on protecting Members of Congress, no doubt the police and courts will see these seditious RW rioters get off lightly but if they were blacks the full weight of the courts imposed....rioters people with murder on their minds inspired by Trump and embolden to act in sedition, well they are whites different privileged rules ....and you Sporks are telling us the Democrats are lying...making false allegations...is just plain ol; white honkie bullshit.
The only thing I am convinced of is that the RW are blatantly stupid enamoured with the cult of Trumpism...đ
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 24, 2021 0:11:59 GMT 10
You haven't shown any proof...Trumps lawyers video evidence is not the full picture of events and Trumps chaotic presidency. Trump's Capitol Hill rioters were there under lies promoted by Trump as an incitement to sedition ...."Stop the Steal" and "Fight" the armed white supremacist were told. 400 Capitol Hill rioters are facing the US judiciary many for sedition are possible 20 year prison sentences, harsh penalties introduced by Trump on BLM peaceful protestors pulling down white supremacist statutes that he called the national guard on, not so the guard on protecting Members of Congress, no doubt the police and courts will see these seditious RW rioters get off lightly but if they were blacks the full weight of the courts imposed....rioters people with murder on their minds inspired by Trump and embolden to act in sedition, well they are whites different privileged rules ....and you Sporks are telling us the Democrats are lying...making false allegations...is just plain ol; white honkie bullshit. The only thing I am convinced of is that the RW are blatantly stupid enamoured with the cult of Trumpism...đ ...Except I've already shown you that the media did not show the full quote, thus taking Trumps words out of context. (Where else would we have gotten that footage?) It's just more evidence of censorship and propaganda, and lies from the Liberal media. They distort the issue, then shove it down your throat. And there you are: "Thank you sir, may I have some more?" Typical Liberal strategy: When argument by means of logic fails, make an emotional appeal by screaming "Sexist, racist, homophobe, or bigot!" I don't care about your labels. Truth isn't affected by your emotional outrage.
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Post by caskur on Mar 24, 2021 3:18:27 GMT 10
Media lie all the time. Most people I know don't follow the media though... Most people I know couldn't care less if Trump dropped dead tomorrow.
The media should be sued for misleading the public. They're going broke for a good reason. Why would people buy newspapers knowing the papers are just filled with fiction?
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Post by ponto on Mar 24, 2021 7:57:23 GMT 10
Sporko you are only fooling yourself with your narrative Trump has been hard done by with democrat media manipulation....the protestors on Captiol Hill had no intention to peacefully protest 6th Jan.
I will reiterate with more detail...obviously its not sinking in.
In order to understand why claims of voter fraud culminated in the riot on the Capitol Building, it is important to look at what Donald Trump said via rallies, mainstream media and social media platforms in the weeks leading up to riots themselves, as well as the way he governed America.
There is no doubt that Donald Trumpâs politics were divisive.
Throughout his presidency, rather than seek to unite Americans, he continually perpetuated discord via speeches and policies â for example, through his desire to build a wall on the US-Mexico border, his move to ban Muslim immigration, his removal of womenâs rights via anti-abortion legislation, and calling Black Lives Matter protesters âthugsâ while refusing to denounce neo-nazi and other right wing protests.
Over time, Trump developed a strong following from members of the far-right, including the anti-immigrant, all-male group known as the Proud Boys, who have repeatedly been involved in violent street protests and were amongst those who broke into the US Capitol Building.
Trumps supporter base included militia groups, far-right media figures and Qanon supporters, who also partook in the raids.
Qanon has been described as a âdisproven and discredited far-right conspiracy theoryâ that President Trump is waging a secret war against elite Satan-worshipping paedophiles in government, business and the media.
Itâs popularity grew rapidly after Trump described Qanon supporters as, âPeople who love our countryâ and people who âbasically believe in good government.â
Trump has consistently demonstrated a unique ability to ignore facts. Never was this more evident than during the Covid-19 pandemic when for months he claimed the virus was under control and would soon be gone.
Long before the 2020 elections, he declared on a podium that âthis would be the most rigged election in history;â a statement with no factual basis, but which set a serious undertone for what was to come.
On election night, 3 November 2020, he claimed a decisive victory when the result remained uncertain, and only hours after tweeted to his 88 million followers: âThey are trying to steal the election.â
In the following days and weeks, Trump maintained the facade of his re-election at every public opportunity, refusing to acknowledge any other potential outcome, and when the time came to concede defeat, he refused to do so, instead tweeting: âHe only won in the eyes of the FAKE NEWS MEDIA. I concede NOTHING! We have a long way to go. This was a RIGGED ELECTION!â
He went on to demand recounts, and launched dozens of legal challenges, every one of which was thrown out of the courts.
Many around the globe looked on, admiring Trumpâs sheer optimism, considering it nothing more than a desperate last minute attempt to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
But in America, online and on the streets, conviction amongst his supporters was growing, based on the misguided notion that the election process had been rigged, an âillegitimateâ President was being installed into the White House, and Donald Trump and his supporters had been seriously wronged by the âsystem.â
The hashtagâ#stopthesteal began taking off on social media. Early in November, a Facebook page with the same name emerged. Within 48 hours later, it had amassed more than 300,000 members. Many of the posts focused on unsubstantiated allegations of mass voter fraud, including claims that thousands of dead people had voted, and that counting machines had been rigged to flip votes from Mr Trump to Mr Biden. But some were also beginning to speak of âcivil warâ or ârevolutionâ.
Facebook quickly deleted the group, but not before it had attracted hundreds of thousands of comments and been shared as many times over. Even when it was deleted, various other groups sprang up in its place. .
The fervour of groundswell of support for retribution over Trumpâs election loss continued to gain momentum. There have been reports of death threats and other acts of intimidation towards election officials and Democrat Party members in Georgia, Michigan and Arizona. Some of the rallies held in support of âMake American Great Again,â post-election, which were attended by thousands were marked by angry clashes with non-supporters.
Trump supporters genuinely seemed to believe that he had won a landslide victory, and that âunknown forcesâ (they proposed several theories) were trying to take it from him.
Then on 6 January 2021, just before the riots on Capitol Hill, Trump addressed a rally in Washington beginning with encouragement to âpeacefully and patriotically make your voices heardâ, and ending with: âWe fight like hell, and if you donât fight like hell, youâre not going to have a country anymore. âSo weâre going to, weâre going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue⌠and weâre going to the Capitol.â
In those words alone, Trump did not necessarily incite a riot. However, the question remains: Did he truly grasp the general mood of his supporters at that time and the potential impact of his words?
It should also be noted that it was not just Trump himself who promoted allegations of voter fraud, rigged counting and conspiracy theories, along with retaliation in some form or another.
Trumpsâ personal lawyer, former mayor of New York Rudy Giuliani, was a leading proponent of the idea that the election had been rigged. addressed one rally saying: âIf weâre wrong, we will be made fools of,â he said. âBut if weâre right, a lot of them will go to jail. So letâs have trial by combat.â
One of Donald Trumpâs sons made political threats to any Republican Congressman who certified Bidenâs win.
Ted Cruz, a US senator from Texas told a rally: âWe will not go quietly into the night. We will defend liberty. And we are going to win.â
Many prominent figureheads, including high profile actors and business people, supporters of Trump, also played along, each in their own way preserving and promoting claims via social media, of a rigged election, all of which eventually culminated in angry clashes with police, vandalism and violence on Capitol Hill.
Journalists, sociologists, psychologists, esteemed professors and analysts in the US have all expressed their views.
Many point out that while the riots can be linked to Trumpâs repeated rhetoric, they all agree that there are existing complex social and race issues, some of which date back to a pre-Trump era, but which provided an environment in which Trump was able to garner fervent support, and create an exceptionally strong movement of people willing to incite violence in his name, which he has done nothing, in the aftermath to condemn.
Even when compelled to call for calm after the riots, Trump still continued to claim âlandslide victory that had been taken away.â
Cleary Trump and his supporters with their false narrative of a stolen election was key to the riots.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 24, 2021 22:39:57 GMT 10
You are still trying to guide this discussion to get me to say something that I'm not. I don't care about Trump or his aspirations. I care about truth and justice. If the media isn't reporting honestly, neither is being served. If they would misdirect the public concerning this, what's to stop them from spinning the narrative to serve their purposes?
This isn't a political debate Ponto, it's an ethical one.
I don't trust the mainstream media, and you are failing to provide solid reason why I should.
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Post by ponto on Mar 25, 2021 1:32:40 GMT 10
Your video is about Trump.....while the media is manipulated its not OK for leaders to lie and manipulate people to commit sedition....simple....yet your saying it is cause that's the truth in your book..??
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