China's criminal negligence that deceived the world ...

[Stellar]

... and caused a pandemic.

And was there a dereliction of duty by the WHO in their response to the pandemic? The WHO Director-General Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus has been an outspoken advocate for the Chinese govt’s COVID-19 response.

Criticism of China's early handling of the crisis has been heavily censored inside the country with whistleblowers silenced and state media hailing China's success. The country's health officials say they have recorded only 86,976 cases since the pandemic started - while there are more than 96 million cases worldwide with over 2 million deaths.

China has no credibility where the pandemic is concerned - and neither has the WHO. Anyone who reported the true situation were deemed to be whistleblowers and jailed or have "gone missing."

The U.N. human rights office is "deeply concerned" by many of these whistleblowers' and citizen journalists' sentences after calling for their release raising cases with authorities as an example of "excessive clampdown on freedom of expression linked to Covid-19."



A car follows a funeral caravan with a poster of Zhang Zhan, a Chinese citizen journalist who criticized the Chinese government's handling of the coronavirus crisis and is being held in a Shanghai prison.

In the early days of the outbreak, authorities reprimanded several Wuhan doctors for rumor-mongering after they tried to alert the public. The best-known of them, Li Wenliang, died of Covid-19 and became a national hero.

Several other citizen journalists who reported from Wuhan during the early days of the pandemic also appear to have been targeted and have been missing since February.

China needs to be held responsible for this pandemic because they misled the world and experts say they can and must be held accountable under international law.

[ponto]

Well I think we know all that as to how the covid pandemic started and spread, in China everything comes from the top down, the little authorities say nothing until the big authority says its OK to say something, so no new revelations there in the article.

All of which doesn't excuse the poor leadership response panicking about economies in the west after the horse has bolted when the virus was recognised as deadly.

Or is that the point of the exercise blame China for Trump and other leaders criminal negligence and slow responses...?...Oh its nothing more than nasty flu Trump said ....like a miracle it will go away...meanwhile 3,400 people are dying each day in the US....which equates to over 6,000,000 people are catching covid daily...who are you blaming Stellar for Trump perpetuating myths....China....??

[Stellar]

This is not about Trump! This is about whether China should be held accountable under international law for misleading the world and the WHO about the fact that this virus is passed person-to-person and is highly contagious! It is a pandemic that never should have happened. It has caused untold death and devastation and brought global economies to the brink.

This is also about human rights and whether China should be held accountable for journalists and doctors who have either gone missing or have been jailed for speaking out and trying to warn the world of this disaster.

According to News.com:

Chinese doctors in Wuhan have been secretly filmed admitting that they knew how serious coronavirus was at the start of the outbreak but that they were ordered to lie by authorities.

The damning testimony, which adds to the growing evidence that the Chinese Communist Party intentionally misled the global community in the early stages of the pandemic, is contained in a new documentary by UK broadcaster ITV called Outbreak: The Virus That Shook The World.

China informed the World Health Organisation (WHO) of the first 27 cases of COVID-19 on December 31, 2019, but did not report any deaths until mid-January – and even then were insisting there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission.

[ponto]

There is no major expose' in the article Stellar, we know everything in China comes from the top down and nothing happens in China until the top reacts.

As we know also while there was a initial wait and see approach by China as they were considering how SAR's virus disappeared, they did react and warn before the spread was rampant.

When China did declare hey its a bad one guy's to the world, countries like America under Trump maintained the lets wait and see approach while he espoused to the US and world its nothing just a flu....you cannot hold China accountable for that stupidity.

Next questionable thing is... how under International is China to be held accountable..?....With sanctions...? ..that achieves nothing...See a Chinaman so bash him...?...well no.....Sue China ....?... will not happen under International law, ...Australia has the bat Hendra virus and possible a new nasty highly contagious virus may mutate from Hedra or similar given they way Australia is encroaching on wildlife...so then Australia should be sued in that scenario as well...?....look before you leap before going down that path.

Bottom line is Stellar you have been caught up in "News" hooplah, which is just a distraction from Trumps debacle on how he poorly mismanaged the Covid virus in the US....notice in his last speech still maintains calling it 'The China Virus'.

The horse has bolted, no point standing around berating the mug who left the gate open, ...lesson learnt as it will happen again with climate change, be forewarned, prepare and heed the science advice.

[Stellar]

Well of course we are all aware of this - although some don't want to admit it.  This pandemic could have been stopped in its tracks if China hadn't tried to deceive the world ... and their subsequent weaponisation of Covid.    

[ponto]

So what is the purpose of this if China had of done this or that there would be no pandemic....other than to white wash Trumps lack of expediency with Covid....we got that message Stellar.


The world knew a pandemic was coming because viruses and spread is becoming more frequent, and the experts are warning of a big one coming from the melting Tundra...only madmen governments have no battle plan in place.

[Stellar]

This is not about Trump you idiot.  It's about an authoritarian communist govt deceiving the WHO and persecuting brave medical whistleblowers who vainly tried to warn the world .... and resulted in a global pandemic.  


From the ABC ....

Tributes have been paid on social media in China commemorating a doctor who raised the alarm about the country's coronavirus outbreak, one year after he died with Covid-19.

Thousands paid tribute to Li Wenliang ahead of the first anniversary of his death on 7 February 2020.



Dr Li was an eye doctor at a hospital in Wuhan - the central Chinese city where the first case of the coronavirus was detected at the end of 2019.

He died after contracting Covid-19 while treating patients in Wuhan.
 
Dr Li had tried to warn fellow medics of a disease that looked like Sars - another deadly coronavirus.  But he was told by police to "stop making false comments" and was investigated for "spreading rumours".

Dr Li's death prompted a rare wave of grief and public anger over the Chinese government's handling of the coronavirus outbreak.

Chinese people grieved his death, online and offline. Mourners brought flowers to the hospital, while online some people were furious and demanded for freedom of speech — posts that were quickly censored.

A message was tucked into a bouquet of chrysanthemums left by a mourner at the back of Wuhan Central Hospital to honor a Chinese whistleblower doctor who died from the coronavirus a year ago. It was simply the number of a Bible verse: Matthew 5:10.

“Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven,” the verse reads.



The Chinese public embraced Li, whose presence online had painted a picture of an ordinary person. His wife was pregnant and he was soon to be a father. He sent the “rumor” because he wanted to warn others.

Li's death seemed to raise a challenge to the central government, as public anger swelled.

“A healthy society should not have just one type of voice,” Li had said in an interview with the Chinese business magazine Caixin last year.


But there is only one type of voice in China - the authoritarian communist voice and anyone who doesn't tow that line will be persecuted, victimised and hounded to their graves.   

[ponto]

So its not about Trump its about telling us that China is an authoritarian state that keeps secrets....WoW amazin' what a revelation.

And who was to know there was an initial slow response to Covid=19 by the Wuhan and Hubei local governments that saw the epidemic spread across China, then China reacting with harsh lockdowns and other measures so the virus by late February was under control in most of China's provinces which averted a number of significant cases.

It can be said China response when it started was decisive and effective in controlling the virus in China....unlike Trumpo world, and for what other reason for you to be going China China China if not to blame China for poor US management of covid-19 despite being forewarned of a potential virus threat of a pandemic.

It is similar to living surrounded by bush seeing smoke on the horizon and the local bush fire chief telling you there is a imminent fire coming be prepared and you saying she'll be right make just a bit of smoke is all.

[matte]

All the evidence is pointing to the Wuhan Institute of Virology as the source of Covid-19.

I wouldn't put it past the Chinese Communist Party in attempting to weaponise what was a natural virus in bats.

[ponto]

An allegation espoused Trump, and WHO are investigating the Wuhan lab.

As with any virology Lab we the people need to know if any country is working on nasty deadly virus for no good reasons. So far the Wuhan Lab theory has been debunked by the experts.

If China was working on a Lab spawned virus then one would think they would create a bigger and much nastier virus that doesn't kill Asian people before releasing it.

China was initially slow to react as it was uncertain how the virus would react, and shutting everything down comes at a big cost economically, did not Europe and America react the same, reluctant to shut up shop..it is a human reaction when economics and money is concerned.

Australia and New Zealand were the exception rather than rule and listened to the expert advice....lock down early and contain, its better for economy in the long run.

[matte]

The WHO investigation is already tainted, the findings will be unbelievable.

[Stellar]

I have no idea where the virus came from - whether from the wet market or from a lab.  But China refused to be upfront about human to human transmission right from the beginning of the outbreak.  If China and the WHO had spoken out 3 weeks earlier and if China had immediately put everyone into lockdown instead of allowing millions of Chinese to travel during Chinese New Year - especially overseas - this virus could have been contained. 

There has been a concerted effort by the Chinese commo govt to silence whisleblowers.  Here is an account by Dr Li-Meng Yan who worked on the virus and believes it came from the Wuhan lab ....

From The Australian:

A virologist who fled China after studying the early outbreak of COVID-19 has published a new report claiming the coronavirus likely came from a lab.


Doctor Li-Meng Yan, a scientist who studied some of the available data on COVID-19 has published her claims on Zenodo, an open access digital platform. She wrote that she believed COVID-19 could have been “conveniently created” within a lab setting over a period of just six months, and “SARS-CoV-2 shows biological characteristics that are inconsistent with a naturally occurring, zoonotic virus”.





Early reports of the origin of the coronavirus, or “spillover event”, were that the virus jumped from animal to human within a wet market in the Chinese city of Wuhan sometime in late 2019.



“The natural origin theory, although widely accepted, lacks substantial support,” Dr Yan writes in the report.



“The alternative theory that the virus may have come from a research laboratory is, however, strictly censored on peer-reviewed scientific journals. Nonetheless, SARS-CoV-2 shows biological characteristics that are inconsistent with a naturally occurring, zoonotic virus.”

[Stellar]

Here is an interview with the whistleblower Dr Li-Meng Yan ...

[ponto]

Proving misinformation is a reality for both you Stellar and Matte....*you American Trump kowtowing capitalist pigs fear mongering vicious rumours*...oh sorry lost my head there for a second outraged over the civil ignorance.. ...oh look I've gone all red that America's imperialism is more important than Australia's sovereignty as a free nation...

Li-Meng Yan (simplified Chinese: 闫丽梦; traditional Chinese: 閆麗夢) or Yan Limeng, is a Chinese ophthalmologist and virologist whose 2020 publications and interviews alleging that SARS-CoV-2 was made in a Chinese government laboratory have been widely disputed by the scientific community.[4][5] Yan claimed in interviews that she became aware of person-to-person transmission of COVID-19 in late December 2019, and that she attempted to communicate the risks to her superiors in late December 2019 or early January 2020.[6] She alleges that the Chinese government and the World Health Organization (WHO) knew about the person-to-person transmission of COVID-19 earlier than they reported or made public, and suppressed both her research and that of others.[7]



In April 2020, she fled to the United States where she co-authored two preprint research papers, published to the Zenodo platform on September 14 and October 8 respectively, presenting theories about the origin of SARS-CoV-2.[10]



The September 14 preprint said that SARS-CoV-2 had not emerged naturally in a "spillover from animals", but had been produced in a laboratory.[8][10][11] According to a scientific review by the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, the September paper offered "contradictory and inaccurate information that does not support their argument".[4] Four review articles published in the MIT Press criticised the paper as not demonstrating "sufficient scientific evidence to support its claims."[5] Multiple prominent virologists, such as Kristian Andersen from Scripps Research and Carl Bergstrom from the University of Washington also called it unscientific.



The October 8 preprint went further, saying that SARS-CoV-2 was a bioweapon created by laboratories under the control of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).[9]


In short conspiracy theories are not facts.

[Stellar]

Do you comprehend anything that I write?  I said I had no idea where the virus came from.  But I will listen to all the arguments from all sides as to what they believe is the cause of this outbreak and subsequent pandemic. 

Whereas you want to exonerate China right from the get-go.  That shows your absolute bias towards the communist Chinese govt.  And that means your opinion lacks credibility.  You'd be better off in Beijing.

[ponto]

Stellar your the one posting the (Trump espoused) conspiracy theories with anti China bias....its fairly a known that Covid-19 started in the Wuhan wet market, just as many virus epidemics and pandemics start in unhygienic conditions, slaughtering mixed species animals on the same chopping block...abattoirs have Q fever, Brucellosis, Swine fever, and mad cow disease from poor animal husbandry....as Wuhan Virus Research Lab has been looked at by the experts, including Australia scientist, it is claimed to be one of the best secure labs in the world, if there was a flaw human or building then all Labs around the world need to be looked at, all of which are studying viruses, it is important work.

Logic if China was to release a virus as a weapon why would it release such a weapon on its own people first...?

The conspiracies are nothing more than bullshit.

As stated earlier yes China could have reacted differently to control the virus yet like so many countries there was a wait and see attitude because of economies....its a human failing.

Once China were aware of what they were dealing with they did react quickly with lockdowns and gained control, not as though they did nothing to contain the virus.

One is not apologizing for China one is being a realist by not following all the made up stuff about China that many like yourself and Matte are quick to jump on board with worked into hate mode.....keep your head and wait until the results are in.

[ponto]

Well here's a turn up for the book's...https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/health/covid19-and-frozen-food-world-health-organisations-cold-chain-transmission-warning/news-story/ccba7724e03a46cbb2e0c7e59dc4bb24

[ponto]

Covid and frozen food: World Health Organisation investigation reveals unlikely source of virus

A team of experts investigating COVID-19’s origins in China has given an update on possible transmission of the virus through frozen food.





Emma Reynolds




The team of experts investigating the origins of COVID-19 in China have issued a warning over possible transmission of the virus through frozen food products.



In a dramatic press briefing during which the team said there was no evidence linking the coronavirus to a lab leak or bats, they confirmed that the coronavirus could have originated in frozen meat.



Dr Peter Ben Embarek, the World Health Organisation’s food safety and animal disease specialist and chair of the investigation team, said that “cold chain” transmission through the transport of frozen goods was possible and warranted further investigation.



During Tuesday night’s press briefing in Wuhan, Dr Embarek said COVID-19 samples identified in bats and pangolins were not “sufficiently similar” to SARS-CoV-2 to suggest a direct link.



But he said that an intermediary host species was “the most likely pathway” for transmission to humans, with the panel observing that animals including minks and cats were likely to serve as reservoirs.



Dr Embarek said the team had tried to find what other animals were introduced to the Huanan seafood market in Wuhan that could have introduced the coronavirus and “a lot of work needs to be done” in this area.




This includes products that were moving in and out of the market, those produced at the time and/or those that are still available. “The market was dealing primarily with frozen animal products and mainly seafood but there were also vendors selling products from domesticated wildlife and imported products,” he said.



“We know the virus can survive in conditions that are found in these cold, frozen environments, but we don’t really understand if the virus can transmit to humans,” he said.




Professor Liang Wannian, head of the China team, told reporters the reservoir hosts still need to be identified. He said studies showed the virus “can be carried long-distance on cold chain products”.



“There is the potential to continue to follow this lead and animals that were supplied to the market in frozen and other semi-processed or raw form.”


Professor Marion Koopmans, a Dutch virologist and member of the WHO team, said that some animals thought to be susceptible to COVID-19 — including rabbits, ferret-badgers and bamboo rats — were present at the Huanan wet market.



China has repeatedly pushed the idea that the virus can be transmitted by frozen food and has regularly announced findings of COVID-19 traces on imported food packaging, including chicken wings from Brazil, squid from Russia, shrimp from Ecuador, pork from Germany and salmon from Norway.



“More and more evidence suggests that the frozen seafood or meat products probably spread the virus from countries with the epidemic into our country,” Chinese epidemiologist Wu Zunyou said in a recent interview posted on a government website, The New York Times reported.



China’s state tabloid the Global Times said in December the Wuhan market used to sell “imported cold-chain seafood, such as king crab and arctic shellfish, as well as meat products from Brazil and Germany”.


“The city also imported Australian steak, Chilean cherries and Ecuadorean seafood before 2019, according to the information from the website of the city’s commerce bureau,” the article added.



On January 31, the tabloid argued that “the possibility that the coronavirus was passed on from cold-chain products into Wuhan, or more specifically, to the Huanan wet market … cannot be ruled out”.



Beijing has been working hard to deflect the attacks on China as the suspected origin of the pandemic, with the earliest cases detected in the country in December 2019. The WHO team confirmed it was “extremely unlikely” that the virus originated from a lab, a theory circulated by the US administration and former President Donald Trump.



It said there was evidence of wider circulation of the virus back in December 2019 (but no earlier), not only at the Huanan wet market but at other Chinese markets and in some cases with no association to any market at all.



This could potentially confirm recent claims from the Global Times that suggested the seafood market was not the source of the outbreak.



Prof Liang said some of the Huanan market cases had identical genomes, suggesting they are part of a cluster, but he said further research was needed to determine the role played by cold chain food products in transmission.



While Beijing is now pursuing the imports theory, Chinese officials previously identified wild animals sold at the market as a likely source of the outbreak and clamped down on the exotic animal trade in response.



A price list issued by a market seller and circulated online showed an array of exotic wildlife available including civets, snakes and even live wolf pups.





No doubt the Trumpians will proclaim the Who organisation is a communist puppet and the results not to be trusted...they are convinced the virus started in a lab,,,because Trump tod them so, disregarding the panel of international experts including an Australian. .

So now its down to what country had a surge in pneumonia cases before the outbreak.. 

[ponto]

JANUARY 25, 2021



COVID-19 warnings were on Twitter well before the outbreak of the pandemic

by IMT School for Advanced Studies Lucca

www.medindia.net/news/strange-pneumonia-cases-were-noticed-in-italy-before-chinas-covid-19-outbreak-193888-1.htm

[matte]

That frozen food hypothesis (lie) should be the reason we pull out of the WHO.

The fact that the WHO would push lies from China indicates it isn't an organisation worth being part of.

[pim]

Pushes the anti-UN line. Ask our Pacific island neighbours about the UN and especially WHO whenever a natural disaster strikes.

search.un.org/results.php?ie=utf8&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=utf8&_ga=GA1.2.1719042223.1613191385&_gid=GA1.2.1543270101.1613191385&_gat=1&query=tropical+cyclone+solomon+islands&tpl=un&lang=en&rows=10

Sure, Australia is there helping out - and frequently in a blue helmet capacity. Look Matt, I'm not going to waste time debating the worth of the UN with you or whether or not Australia should have anything to do with the Chinese. You have an agenda which is informed by all those forces of darkness in the United States that coalesced behind Trump. Trump didn't start any of this loopy stuff but they gravitated to him like blowflies to a can of night soil. Thank goodness you have zero input into Australian foreign policy. From memory you used to live in the electorate of Chifley whose current member is Ed Husic - not only is he Labor but he's also a Muslim! Pass the smelling salts! I hope he's your local member!!

[matte]

Is it too much to ask the WHO to stick to science rather than pushing CCP propaganda? That is all the world is asking for.

You don't need a PhD in medicine, virology or epidemiology to know for sure that the propaganda regarding Australian beef is just that, propaganda. The WHO has been coopted by China to indulge in it too.

If Australian beef was the vector that caused covid, why were no other nations that we export beef to impacted until well after the Wuhan outbreak? Why wasn't there a major outbreak in Australia caused by beef? Why is the WHO entertaining CCP propaganda, not only against Australia, but other nations that the CCP has tried to shift the blame to?

If the WHO wants to be trusted, they should stick to the science.

[pim]

It's more than a bit rich for someone like you who has been pushing an anti-science voodoo obscurantist agenda for as long as I've been a member of these boards now to be lecturing about "stick to the science".

[ponto]

And here we have from Matte its shooting the WHO messenger before the message is out because Joe Blogs Trumpeter is more of an expert on covid-19 than the scientist looking into covid-19....there is a big question mark over the safety of frozen food because covid-19 can survive cold conditions and last longer the colder the environment it is.

"They advise that for now it is better to avoid eating cold meats, like salmon, till there is more clarity on the issue. The novel coronavirus was also found on chopping boards used to cut salmon for imports in a wholesale food market in China. But many experts are quick to point out that, since there is no credible evidence of virus transmitting through food and food packaging *yet*, it may be a little premature to confirm that frozen foods may carry the virus. survive"...https://www.thehealthsite.com/news/be-careful-of-what-you-eat-covid-19-may-spread-via-food-and-food-packaging-757534/

While there is uncertainty over frozen food, the virus can survive cold environment and the colder it is the longer it survives, there was once the opinion that Covid-19 could not be transmitted by air con...they said the droplets were too big and would fall to the ground,.... that theory was proven wrong given airports, planes, boats and hotels covid was transmitted with the greatest of ease, and also abattoirs were major spreaders because of the cold moist environment the virus thrived in.

Certainty it is unwise to shoot the messenger before the message is in because of Trump inspired bias.

[matte]

The WHO literally gave the CCP exactly what it wanted, the WHO was played by the CCP for their propaganda purposes.