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Post by pim on Jan 3, 2013 0:42:23 GMT 10
... and that's unfortunate. The headline in today's SMH tells us that Indian lawyers have resolved not to defend the six suspects accused of raping and murdering the medical student and her fiancé. By the same token demonstrators carry placards calling for "justice" for the rape/murder victim. www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-02/indian-lawyers-refuse-to-defend-gang-rape-accused/4450666If you want "justice" then you need a guilty verdict that is watertight and beyond challenge. That means that those young men accused of the rape/murder need to have the opportunity of a proper defence. The brother of the murder/rape victim says he speaks for the family in demanding the death penalty for the accused. It isn't my intention on this thread to canvass the rights & wrongs of the death penalty. India has it and we don't. Let's leave it at that. I'm not criticising the family members for wanting to see these guys hang. They're entitled to their grief and anger. But the public mood is "Bugger any namby pamby trial. String the bastards up". That's a lynch mob mentality and the legal profession is supposed to be better than that. India has a distinguished record in jurisprudence and the links between their legal profession and ours run surprisingly deep. I realise that on a discussion board like this one there will be people who would approve of a lynch mob approach. The problem with a lynch mob is that while it will give you vengeance, it won't deliver justice - and justice is what the demonstrators in India are demanding. It seems they're conflating and confusing it with vengeance. Understandable in ordinary people who don't know the law. Inexcusable in a legal profession whose most famous member was Mahatma Gandhi himself. |
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Post by jody on Jan 3, 2013 6:53:29 GMT 10
Everyone is entitled to a trial.
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Post by garfield on Jan 3, 2013 6:58:27 GMT 10
Unless they are radio announcers of course ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2013 9:21:11 GMT 10
You can't blame the masses for their outrage. The sheer depravity of what those creatures did to that poor innocent woman is beyond human belief.
So you can understand the majority of lawyers not wishing to take on the case and forever associate themselves with these vermin. I think they will have to bring in some lawyers from elsewhere to defend them.
Personally I hope they hang!
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Post by pim on Jan 3, 2013 12:09:57 GMT 10
Nobody would weep for them, Stellar. I certainly wouldn't. To be honest I don't care if they hang or not. Their fate is of zero interest to me. They can also rot in some dungeon for all I care. Here's an informative article www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/02/delhi-bus-rape-future-india that examines the whole cultural context within which the rape/murder occurred. When England went through its Industrial Revolution and transformed itself from a nation of villages to a nation of cities with "dark satanic mills" the result was lawlessness to the point that England became what Disraeli called "Two Nations" of "respectables" and the rest who lived in grinding poverty. A by-product of that process was Australia. It probably took 200 years before a Britain emerged that we would recognise. Don't worry, I'm not trying to turn this into a discussion aboutr Britain. If you want to know how the "two nations" collided you need go no further than the novels of Charles Dickens. Thing is, when England was going through its "two nations" period so was the rest of Europe - as the Victor Hugo novel Les Misérables would attest, and also the German novel Buddenbrooks. Nobody was really in a position to take the high moral ground since they were all in the same mud pile. At least the British had safety valves like Australia that they could export their social misfits to. India is going through its "two nations" period today, The difference is that a rape/murder in India, togther with its mass response, gets reported around the world. We copped a lot of flak in India over the bashing/murder of Indian students in Australian cities. I detect a bit of tit for tat in Western schadenfreude over this brutal and tragic Indian case. It's disconcerting to discover that between the India of an emerging professional and affluent middle class of 300 million with its new cities and expressways, and village India of mahouts and elephants, what stands between on the faultline between these two colliding worlds of a developing urban middle class culture and a deeply conservative village hinterland is not The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel with an aging British expat Judi Dench lookalike drinking her sundowner, but corrupt cops and a gang culture based on uprooted villagers with not much hope. In other words the losers. I dunno if the losers who raped and murdered that poor girl (and the article profiles her family too) will end up hanged and I don't care. It won't make much difference. From what I hear ever since that rape/murder, the rapes just keep on keeping on. What's different is that a younger urban generation, more affluent and more educated than their parents, is starting to realise its own strength and that it has political muscle to stretch. |
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Post by matt on Jan 3, 2013 12:22:29 GMT 10
Disrespect for women in Indian culture is a normal thing. Western women report all the time being sexually harassed or assaulted in India as tourists.
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Post by pim on Jan 3, 2013 12:38:33 GMT 10
Hopeless generalisations from an individual who's probably never been more than 100km in any direction from Parramatta. Once again, opinion is touted as fact in a way you can get away with on a discussion board where people like you are constantly in search of an on-line echo chamber where prejudices and bigotries are reinforced and confirmed, instead of challenged and lampooned. Any woman is not going to have to go very far in any direction to get harrassed and assaulted. All they have to do in western Sydney is to go out in public wearing a hijab and they're bound to encounter Matt who'll favour them with a Hate Stare.
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Post by matt on Jan 3, 2013 12:52:35 GMT 10
I have been to Israel twice.
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Post by pim on Jan 3, 2013 13:11:24 GMT 10
Doesn't seem to have done much for you Matt, except help you practise your Hate Stare ...  It's glass half full vs glass half empty again, isn't it. People like you think in negative cultural stereotypes so you respond to news stories like this in a typical glass half empty fashion. You'll never change. Stick with your god-bothering and voodoo theology, Matt. |
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Post by caskur on Jan 3, 2013 13:15:32 GMT 10
You can't blame the masses for their outrage. The sheer depravity of what those creatures did to that poor innocent woman is beyond human belief. So you can understand the majority of lawyers not wishing to take on the case and forever associate themselves with these vermin. I think they will have to bring in some lawyers from elsewhere to defend them. Personally I hope they hang! here, here! |
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Post by pim on Jan 3, 2013 13:17:14 GMT 10
you mean "hear hear"
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Post by caskur on Jan 3, 2013 13:27:29 GMT 10
Disrespect for women in Indian culture is a normal thing. Western women report all the time being sexually harassed or assaulted in India as tourists. Indians actually believe if they don't get their rocks off six times a day, they will fall ill. The Indian soldiers regularly rape the Tamil women. The place is a disaster... the way you find out about these crimes won't be from our TV.... you have to go to their sites... the national sport of Asia is rape.... and Asia spreads from the Philippines to the Middle east. of course, now they've all been allowed to infest my country like the rest of the feral animals. |
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Post by caskur on Jan 3, 2013 13:27:57 GMT 10
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Post by caskur on Jan 3, 2013 13:31:26 GMT 10
Someone needs to issue pamphlets at Aussie airports with this comment...
"you're not allowed to dip your wicks in anything other than your legal wife!"
just plain and simple like that!
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Post by fat on Jan 3, 2013 15:22:43 GMT 10
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Post by fat on Jan 3, 2013 15:23:25 GMT 10
Someone needs to issue pamphlets at Aussie airports with this comment... "you're not allowed to dip your wicks in anything other than your legal wife!" just plain and simple like that! and add "but only if she says yes" |
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Post by caskur on Jan 3, 2013 16:23:46 GMT 10
we should all go back to plain, simple succinct language.
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Post by caskur on Jan 3, 2013 16:28:42 GMT 10
years ago, back on old ANTB with DrJacks crowd.. I asked them was it hear, hear, or here, here? And I said, it should be hear, hear and someone corrected me and said it's here, here... so I stuck with that... but I don't care really.... it's free world at least here in Oz....possibly both are correct.
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Post by fat on Jan 3, 2013 16:47:30 GMT 10
From Wiki
Hear, hear
Hear, hear is an expression used as a short, repeated form of hear him, hear him. It represents a listener's agreement with the point being made by a speaker. In recent usage it has often been re-analysed as here, here, although this is incorrect.
It was originally an imperative for directing attention to speakers, and has since been used, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, as "the regular form of cheering in the House of Commons", with many purposes, depending on the intonation of its user. Its use in Parliament is linked to the fact that applause is normally (though not always) forbidden in the chambers of the House of Commons and House of Lords.
The phrase hear him, hear him! was used in Parliament from late in the 17th century, and was reduced to hear! or hear, hear! by the late 18th century. The verb hear had earlier been used in the King James Bible as a command for others to listen.
Other phrases have been derived from hear, hear, such as a hear, hear (a cheer), to hear-hear (to shout the expression), and hear-hearer (a person who does the same).
The overuse of the phrase by an eager member of the House of Commons led Richard Brinsley Sheridan, in one speech, to deviate from his planned text and say "Where, oh where, shall we find a more foolish knave or a more knavish fool than this?". The lone Member of Parliament said "hear, hear."
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Post by matt on Jan 3, 2013 17:03:25 GMT 10
I have seen footage of main roads in India with men lined up against the wall using it like a communal urinal... at midday, and not even in a discrete way. They just flop it out and start pissing, 15 men at a time.
No wonder India is a health risk, not just to the Indian population, but to the world. You don't even require a prescription for antibiotics in India, you just turn up to the corner store and buy them like chewing gum.
The worlds most deadly superbugs are being cultivated in India, and it is becoming more and more common for western people to return from a holiday in India, and then six months later develop deadly infections with no cure.
Travel to India at your own risk, it is a biological hazard.
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Post by Lord Stockton on Jan 3, 2013 17:07:03 GMT 10
Disrespect for women in Indian culture is a normal thing. Western women report all the time being sexually harassed or assaulted in India as tourists.
According to my daughter's bridemaid she experienced that in Nov 11 from the manager of the hotel she stayed in.
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Post by garfield on Jan 3, 2013 17:09:45 GMT 10
Wouldn't mind going to Mount Everest but as for the rest of the region they can shove it up their arse!
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Post by matt on Jan 3, 2013 22:45:26 GMT 10
Disrespect for women in Indian culture is a normal thing. Western women report all the time being sexually harassed or assaulted in India as tourists. According to my daughter's bridemaid she experienced that in Nov 11 from the manager of the hotel she stayed in. Shocking, it is almost as if it is in their DNA! |
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Post by pim on Jan 3, 2013 22:55:27 GMT 10
Pity help any sari-clad Indian who's out with her husband in Western Sydney tomorrow. Matt's got his racist dander up. It'll be the Hate Stare tomorrow!!  |
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Post by matt on Jan 3, 2013 23:02:16 GMT 10
How can India stop people urinating in public?5 December 2012 By Rahul Tandon Calcutta Spend any time in India, and you will see men urinating in public. In the state of Rajasthan last month volunteers began shaming offenders by drumming and blowing whistles. But some argue the country also needs more, and better, public toilets. A few days after we moved to India my son pointed to a group of men standing in front of a wall near our flat. They were all laughing and joking as they urinated in public. He looked at me, confused, and said, "Why are they doing that?" Five years on, I am still trying to find an answer. Travel around the world's largest democracy and you better watch where you are walking as you will find men - and it is almost always men - urinating and spitting everywhere. An Indian friend of mine recently joked that it has become a national pastime. "We will do it anywhere," he said with some pride. The decision by the authorities in part of Rajasthan to try and stop people urinating in public by embarrassing them has started a debate here. A columnist in one of the country's most popular English language newspapers recently asked the question, "Are Indians by nature unhygienic?" His answer, which angered a number of his readers, was "Yes". Armed with a copy of his article, I decided to pose the same question to some friends of mine. Bikram, part of India's new young cash-rich middle class, was the first to answer. After glaring at me for a few seconds he said: "How can you even ask such a stupid question?" The answer was quite simple, he added. "There are just not enough toilets here." There were lots of nodding heads around the table. Bikram had a point. India's rural development minister Jairam Ramesh recently said that the country needed toilets more than temples. Almost half of the homes in the world's largest democracy do not have one. His comments led to protests outside his house. But a few days later he urged women not to get married unless there was a toilet in their new homes. There was silence following Bikram's comments. It looked as though our discussion was over. But then Tina, a housewife, decided to have her say. "It is not about toilets, it is about a lack of civic sense," she said, adding that just a few hours earlier she had seen a man urinating on the street, right in front of a public toilet. "It happens all the time, and it is disgusting," she said. I looked at Bikram, hoping for a response, but he had nothing to say and pretended that he had to make an urgent call. But a friend of mine from Mumbai, Raju, shook his head. "Have you ever been to a public toilet?" he asked. "They stink. I had one near my house and they had to knock it down as you could not walk within 50 yards of it without being physically sick." Tina, though, was now in full flow. "Well that is because of caste," she said. "We expect people from lower castes to clean toilets. We will not do it. Until that changes the problem will remain." Her friend Brinka, who was sitting next to her, wanted to say something. Her eyes were fixed on all the men around the table. "Can I ask you guys why we women can wait until we find a toilet but you men can't?" she asked. None of the men around the table dared to answer. As I walked home I saw a man standing on the pavement. Legs apart. You can guess what he was doing. I asked him in Hindi: "Why could you not wait till you got home or find a toilet?" He looked at me like I was mad. "This is India sir... this is what we do," he replied. Listening to our conversation was a policeman. I asked him why he did not stop him. With a smile on his face, he said: "What is the point?" Those words kept ringing in my head as I continued my walk home. How could you solve the problem with that attitude? As I looked up, I saw pictures of the gods on the wall in front of me. They had been placed outside a house so that people would not urinate on it. India may need more toilets than temples - but in this deeply religious country, it seems that divine intervention is the only thing that can stop men from urinating in public. www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20601552
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