Just wear the damn mask

[jody]

I am claustrophobic and can breathe fine in these masks. Don't be selfish, keep safe, keep others safe.

[Yassir Rebob]

What if you have severe mental health issues that make it, how to put it delicately, problematic to wear a mask.

Anyways should I make this the time to suggest that we all TAKE THE RED PILL.

[jody]

If people have a real medical reason not to wear one, then fair enough but I am sick of hearing the bullshit that it goes against their rights.

[Yassir Rebob]

This Mask Bizzo is a bit of a bummer for deaf people. They rely on facial expressions to be able to communicate with us.

[pim]

Auslan?

How do you sign "The Mask Wars"?

Jody's right. How do you sign "STFU and just wear the mask!"

[Gort]

Jul 28, 2020 11:51:21 GMT 10 pim said:

Auslan?

How do you sign "The Mask Wars"?

Jody's right. How do you sign "STFU and just wear the mask!"

[Yassir Rebob]

Jul 28, 2020 11:51:21 GMT 10 pim said:

Auslan?

How do you sign "The Mask Wars"?

Jody's right. How do you sign "STFU and just wear the mask!"

Not just Auslan, many deaf people read facial expressions, particularly lips, when communicating with others. Even auslan requires facial expression for nuance. Not too sure how practable it is to mass train the populace in Auslan

[caskur]

Jul 28, 2020 9:02:50 GMT 10 jody said:

I am claustrophobic and can breathe fine in these masks. Don't be selfish, keep safe, keep others safe.View Attachment

You look good in a mask.

We don't have to wear them in WA yet.

I was thinking I should go to Bunnings and get a supply though.

[caskur]

Jul 28, 2020 9:52:03 GMT 10 Yassir Rebob said:

This Mask Bizzo is a bit of a bummer for deaf people. They rely on facial expressions to be able to communicate with us.

Then clear plastic masks are the way to go.

You should arrange to make some. You might become a squillionaire for your innovation!!!

[pim]

Jul 28, 2020 12:28:17 GMT 10 Yassir Rebob said:

Jul 28, 2020 11:51:21 GMT 10 pim said:

Auslan?

How do you sign "The Mask Wars"?

Jody's right. How do you sign "STFU and just wear the mask!"

Not just Auslan, many deaf people read facial expressions, particularly lips, when communicating with others. Even auslan requires facial expression for nuance. Not too sure how practable it is to mass train the populace in Auslan

Short answer is that it isn't. Mind you in a more humane society which those with a disability were considered "normal" rather than freaks to be dealt with (or not dealt with) in an ad hoc way, Auslan would be included in the school curriculum. Certainly it would be a lot more useful than French! In Canberra my kids went to a government school which includes a School for the Hearing Impaired as a unit in among the more "mainstream" parts of the school. All of the kids - and that includes the "mainstream" kids, are taught Auslan in Year 7. Feedback is that kids love it.

[caskur]

Then they'll be asking for Italian and French in sign. It'll never stop.

Just give every deaf person a bionic ear. That'll really solve the problem.

[pim]

Jul 28, 2020 14:06:03 GMT 10 caskur said:

Jul 28, 2020 9:52:03 GMT 10 Yassir Rebob said:

This Mask Bizzo is a bit of a bummer for deaf people. They rely on facial expressions to be able to communicate with us.

Then clear plastic masks are the way to go.

You should arrange to make some. You might become a squillionaire for your innovation!!!

Priceline chemists were selling packets of 50 single use surgical masks for $50. We bought a packet.

[KTJ]

[pim]

Face mask requirement does not infringe on human rights or constitutional freedoms, lawyers say

amp.abc.net.au/article/12494100

To see the 3 minute video of the Bunnings incident, go to link


It's mandatory to wear a mask outside the home around metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire and you'll risk a $200 fine for failing to do so. While Victoria Police say the "vast majority" of people are complying with the requirement, we've seen some viral videos of people refusing to wear a mask in public or when entering a private business where masks are a condition of entry. Of the 152 public health breach fines issued in Victoria in the 24 hours to mid-Monday, 23 of those were for failing to wear a face covering when leaving home.

Facts about face masks

Some people have made claims that the mask requirement is unlawful or a breach of their human rights, and have alleged businesses aren't allowed to refuse them entry if they're not wearing one.

"The behaviour of those who blatantly choose to disregard the rules on the insistence their human rights being breached is alarming," Victoria Police Deputy Commissioner of regional operations Rick Nugent said.

"Worse yet, it seems these people are more interested in notoriety and getting likes on social media than the health and wellbeing of their fellow Victorians."

Let's dive into some misinformation around mask wearing — and speak to legal experts for the facts.

Firstly — where do the laws around masks come from?

Like other states and territories, during a public health emergency, state legislation grants Victoria's Chief Health Officer the power to issue public health orders. 

To see 33 second video on how face coverings and masks minimise spreading coronavirus go to link

Victoria's State of Emergency has been extended until 11:59pm on Saturday, August 16 — although that's been continually extended since the first emergency declaration in March. So, why didn't we see the Victorian Parliament engaging in a debate over mandatory mask wearing before it became the law?

Rick Sarre, an adjunct professor of law and criminal justice at the University of South Australia, explains that it's the same reason governments can make snap border declarations or social distancing orders — they are legally allowed to.

"You can't make a decision on the basis of parliamentary debate very, very quickly," he said. "We'd be in a complete and utter shambles [if that was the case], because how do you then get a Parliament to come back and do something that when the Parliament's in recess, for example? So once the government says we have a pandemic and … we're now going to mandate the wearing of masks in our state — of course they can do that. That's always premised upon the fact that we are in a state of emergency or we're in a situation requires good decisive government action. So anyone who suggests that has to be parliamentarily debated is speaking nonsense."

If you're interested in reading the full public health order that gives effect to the face covering requirement, you can view it here. www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/202007/Stay%20at%20Home%20Directions%20%28Restricted%20Areas%29%20%28No%204%29%20-%2022%20July%202020.pdf

What about other agreements Australia is a signatory to?

Australia is indeed a signatory to a several conventions that impose broad obligations around human rights and anti-discrimination, to name a couple. But do they give you a right not to wear a mask — or a right not to be treated differently or refused entry to a business if you refuse to wear one? No, Professor Sarre says. 


"All rights are in competition with each other," he said. He quotes a well-known saying: "Your right to swing your fist ends at the point my nose begins. So your right to speak freely or anyone's right to speak freely is constrained by things like the laws of defamation. Your right to shout anything out is constrained by the fact you might be saying something which is racist, in which case, there's another right that says a person doesn't have to put up with [racial vilification]. If [someone] says, 'I've got a right to do whatever I want' — not really, because it's constrained by another right. The bottom line is that on private property there is an obligation of store owners to make sure that that property is as safe for patrons and their staff as possible. In order to keep a place and private property safe, then [businesses] are entitled to do whatever it is that you are required to do."

Deputy Commissioner Nugent said his message was "simple: no-one has a human right to infect other people and place the entire Victoria community at risk. In fact, this type of behaviour is childish and is completely unacceptable when police are working incredibly hard to keep the community safe."

Does discrimination on the basis of my clothing exist?

Professor Sarre said in most cases, a right to not be discriminated against on the basis of what you're wearing does not exist.

"In every state and territory we have an equal opportunity or anti-discrimination act," he said. "You cannot discriminate against the person on the basis of their race, on the basis of their age, on the basis of their gender, on the basis of their sexuality. Wearing a mask is not one of those. There's nothing that says you cannot discriminate against me on the basis of my dress."

He said some specific exemptions in some jurisdictions applied for religious attire like turbans or hijabs.

What about my constitutional rights?

There's no explicit right to free speech enshrined in the constitution, although the High Court has declared the constitution implies a freedom of political communication. Refusal to wear a mask would not qualify as political communication if it breached a public health order, Professor Sarre said.

[Yassir Rebob]

Jul 28, 2020 14:46:38 GMT 10 pim said:

Jul 28, 2020 14:06:03 GMT 10 caskur said:

Then clear plastic masks are the way to go.

You should arrange to make some. You might become a squillionaire for your innovation!!!

Priceline chemists were selling packets of 50 single use surgical masks for $50. We bought a packet.

Many people simply don't have the money to able to have a readily supply of masks.

$50.00 for masks or $50.00 to put food on their tables, what should they do ?

[pim]

Make her own masks www.healthline.com/health/how-to-make-a-face-mask-with-filter

... and many other "how to" sites.

[pim]

[Yassir Rebob]

Jul 29, 2020 16:07:55 GMT 10 pim said:

Make her own masks www.healthline.com/health/how-to-make-a-face-mask-with-filter

... and many other "how to" sites.

What makes you think that it has to be a "she" ?

[pim]

Mutatis mutandis

[Yassir Rebob]

I've always considered Latin overrated

[pim]

It's a legal formula for court documents that means"make any necessary changes" . So let the generic use of the feminine also imply the masculine, and vice versa.

[Yassir Rebob]

Yes I get that, google can occasionally be a useful tool, as is latin.

[fat]

Clear plastic masks - would a freezer bag over the head work?

[Yassir Rebob]

Jul 29, 2020 16:13:48 GMT 10 pim said:

sorta defeats the purpose, don't it

[Stellar]

Jul 28, 2020 14:06:03 GMT 10 caskur said:

Jul 28, 2020 9:52:03 GMT 10 Yassir Rebob said:

This Mask Bizzo is a bit of a bummer for deaf people. They rely on facial expressions to be able to communicate with us.

Then clear plastic masks are the way to go.

You should arrange to make some. You might become a squillionaire for your innovation!!!

We had to learn how to communicate with the deaf and hard of hearing when training.  Although it was very hard with the deaf - and I am referring here to people who were born deaf and use Auslan.  They really need someone to translate for them because they don't speak - never having heard speech.  I did ask what the sign language translator was saying while he was signing because whatever it was it didn't look like actual words to me.  

As for the hard of hearing and others with more severe hearing impairments, you can get by with facial expressions that give meaning to the words you are speaking.  Most of them rely on lip reading to help so need face-to-face conversations.  At least the hard of hearing can speak well as most have had normal hearing when younger. 

They would benefit by medical staff wearing something like this ....



And it would be better for young children too as they can be very scared in a hospital setting when staff are wearing PPE.  Children need to see facial expressions - especially a reassuring smile from the staff members treating them.

And I just noticed something today when out and about doing some retail therapy ... I wore a mask for only the second time and on different occasions people smiled at me whilst we were talking but they couldn't see that I was smiling back.  A couple didn't pick up everything I said and I had to repeat - and it's not the easiest thing having a conversation wearing a mask as it does tend to muffle speech somewhat.  

I really thought that when I retired I'd never have to wear a mask again.