|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 2, 2020 20:31:16 GMT 10
If you are claiming that is in your bullshit book, then whoever wrote that in the bullshit book stole something which was already common sense to many human beings.
You're a moron, Sporky. And an arrogant one at that too!! It isn't common sense. Some people believe that it isn't always wrong to lie, some cultures believe it's okay to kill other tribe members. You are being logically inconsistent. On one hand you are saying the Bible is Bullshit; and then you backpedal and say that it's trite, yet true. You complain that it is immoral and then confirm that it contains moral precepts that you agree with. Which is it? And you haven't explained how naturalists developed morality, you've only asserted that they have them. I never challenged the notion that atheists couldn't me moral. Only that they can't account for it.
|
|
|
Post by KTJ on Jul 3, 2020 10:42:52 GMT 10
Of course an atheist (or in my case, a non-believer of unproven bullshit, no label needed) can account for their morality.
It's simple: if you treat other people nicely, they are more likely to treat you nicely.
No religious bullshit needed for that sort of basic common sense.
|
|
|
Post by pim on Jul 3, 2020 14:53:02 GMT 10
So why don’t you practise what you’ve just preached and treat people nicely instead of trolling the bejesus out of the Religion Board?
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 3, 2020 20:24:29 GMT 10
Of course an atheist (or in my case, a non-believer of unproven bullshit, no label needed) can account for their morality.
It's simple: if you treat other people nicely, they are more likely to treat you nicely.
No religious bullshit needed for that sort of basic common sense. Alright, but what if another atheist doesn't share those values? What if moral axioms come into conflict? (Ie: Is it right to lie to the Nazis to save the Jews?) What about amoralist atheists? What real difference does it make how one cosmic accident treats another cosmic accident? Raw chemical processes don't really concern themselves with 'feelings'. If you are a product of them, why should you? What about moral things such as giving your life to save another? Things in which offer you no direct benefit? You are basing your entire morality on your personal preference, and that is not a universal standard.
|
|
|
Post by KTJ on Jul 3, 2020 20:41:52 GMT 10
Your arguments are the equivalent of “my god has a bigger dick than your god” which is exactly how most religions think.
They all say they are the one true religion and all other religions are false.
Non-believers of unproven bullshit are free from that crap and are free to treat others as they would like to be treated.
They can ignore the hatred & bigotry between the different religions, because they haven't been sucked in by a god delusion inside their minds.
And it is basic common sense to treat others how you'd like to be treated yourself.
But I guess anybody with a brainwashed, stained-glass mind finds that concept too hard to get their minds around unless they read it in their bullshit book.
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 4, 2020 8:24:24 GMT 10
Your arguments are the equivalent of “my god has a bigger dick than your god” which is exactly how most religions think.
They all say they are the one true religion and all other religions are false.
Non-believers of unproven bullshit are free from that crap and are free to treat others as they would like to be treated. Not quite. As C.S. Lewis once said: “If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake.” In Summation: I don't think they are completely wrong; you do. You fail to recognize that violence was also enacted on religion by the godless. (ie, the League of Militant Atheists in Soviet Russia, Polpot's regime in Cambodia, Mao's bloodbath in Tibet and China, etc) Except that you don't really practise what you preach. Brainwashing only occurs in a moment of anguish, and yes some people can turn to God at these times. But, do you have any idea how many people become atheists in the same set of circumstances? The determining factor for the soundness of our convictions are the reasons we use to back them up. Do you have sound reasons for rejecting Christianity, or is it purely emotional? If you don't have logical reasons for rejecting a religion, I would suggest to you that it is YOU who is brainwashed. As for me, you can't honestly say whether I am brainwashed or not, because you've never asked me why I believe in God... So you are just assuming. In regards to morality: If there is no God, then there no moral tragedies. There are only things that YOU don’t like. How do you actually say that this is evil, or this is bad, or this is wrong, or it shouldn’t be that way- if there is no perfect standard to determine the way the world actually should be? Doesn't the Laws about how slaves ought to be treated indicative that there was a moral code in place in Bible times? Similar to how the Geneva convention has rules about how prisoners should be treated? No the Bible wasn't saying that slavery was right, it was saying it was necessary. Prisons while wandering the dessert were impractical, so how would you deal with convicts and P.O.W.'s? In N. America we have something called 'Community Service' for released convicts. I imagine this slavery was something similar. In those times slavery was rampant. The godless did not have the same rules in their treatment of slaves. At least with the Hebrews, they were commanded to release them after 7 years.
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 9, 2020 20:39:57 GMT 10
And it is basic common sense to treat others how you'd like to be treated yourself. Is that the extent of what morality is to you then? So If an old lady asked you to put a pillow over her face and suffocate her so she wouldn't be a burden to her family, you'd do it? You think that would be the more moral thing to do? I'd wager you lack the muster of your convictions.
|
|
|
Post by KTJ on Jul 9, 2020 21:50:49 GMT 10
Now you're just being a stupid dickhead.
You obviously feel really threatened by people who have morals, but who don't pander to a god delusion inside their mind.
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 10, 2020 7:43:30 GMT 10
Now you're just being a stupid dickhead.
You obviously feel really threatened by people who have morals, but who don't pander to a god delusion inside their mind. I noticed that instead of answering rationally, you chose to act like a child and resort to namecalling and schoolyard bullying. You aren't quite living up to that standard that you profess to follow.
|
|
|
Post by KTJ on Jul 10, 2020 8:29:16 GMT 10
When one is dealing with religious idiots, clowns and morons, you have to treat them accordingly for their own good.
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 12, 2020 2:26:01 GMT 10
But you said treat others as you would want to be treated...
So I guess that makes me free to presume then that you wish to be addressed as "dickhead, idiot, clown and moron", henceforth?
Very well, dickhead. Here are some obvious facts from science. The observable universe is made up of three basic elements. Time, matter and energy.
Time doesn't give a shit about how you feel.
Matter doesn't give a shit about how you feel.
Energy doesn't give a shit about how you feel.
So what in this universe is there to give a shit about how you or anyone else feels? What is it about us that makes us live so out of step with nature?
Don't react. Just think it through for a change...
|
|
|
Post by KTJ on Jul 12, 2020 8:10:55 GMT 10
When I'm dealing with religious idiots, I like them to abuse me because then I can quite legitimately treat them right back with the distain they deserve.
In other words, treating them (times ten) how I like them to treat me.
|
|
|
Post by pim on Jul 12, 2020 12:49:15 GMT 10
Distain?
|
|
|
Post by Gort on Jul 12, 2020 12:56:43 GMT 10
Distain will not come out ...
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 12, 2020 21:34:04 GMT 10
When I'm dealing with religious idiots, I like them to abuse me because then I can quite legitimately treat them right back with the distain they deserve.
In other words, treating them (times ten) how I like them to treat me. That's called vengeance. That is NOT moral. And you are getting off topic. I just told you the universe was amoral. So why should we care about morality?
|
|
|
Post by KTJ on Jul 12, 2020 21:42:55 GMT 10
So now you're quoting some geezer who was executed more than 2,000 years ago?
Probably only a few molecules of dust remain from that irrelevant individual.
Quote somebody more modern ... like the 102-year-old Reverend Professor Sir Lloyd Geering who is a resident of the John Scott Retirement Village I pass every day at Ava while driving trains to and from Wellington.
Do you know the fundies even put him on trial for heresy in the 1960s? How's that for stupid religious behaviour in the 20th century, eh? It's hilarious he has out-lived all of those fundies.
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 13, 2020 0:12:37 GMT 10
...So what does that have to do with anything? I never claimed Atheists couldn't be moral, I said they couldn't provide a basis for why they ought to be moral.
|
|
|
Post by KTJ on Jul 13, 2020 8:36:01 GMT 10
So, now you're gradually changing your tune.
The dishonesty of those who claim to be moral for religious reasons never ceases to amaze me.
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 13, 2020 11:26:41 GMT 10
So, now you're gradually changing your tune.
The dishonesty of those who claim to be moral for religious reasons never ceases to amaze me. Why can't you just answer the question: What is the basis for your morality?
|
|
|
Post by KTJ on Jul 14, 2020 18:07:55 GMT 10
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 17, 2020 11:34:34 GMT 10
...So what? You are at a greater disadvantage because you don't believe in ANY of them. As wrong as they may be, at least they are putting some effort into understanding consciousness and the universe. Whereas you are being intellectually LAZY, And flippantly dismiss them all. Heck, you aren't even aware that you are quoting the words of Jesus when you try to use them in an argument against him! Your trite little pictogram skirts the issue, and it doesn't really get you anywhere. What is the basis for your mortality? ...Can't you just answer the simple question? Historically, only Jesus made the claim to be God, and died in/for that belief. And all of his disciples also died because they knew him first hand, and they believed him.
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 17, 2020 11:59:26 GMT 10
"An Atheist can't find God, for the same reason a thief can't find a policeman." -CS Lewis
|
|
|
Post by Gort on Jul 17, 2020 12:04:23 GMT 10
C.S.Lewis could find a lion and a witch in the wardrobe too.
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 17, 2020 12:05:28 GMT 10
So, now you're gradually changing your tune.
The dishonesty of those who claim to be moral for religious reasons never ceases to amaze me. Yes, Atheists can be moral. But they can't be consistent in their atheism with it. They are like a spoiled child slapping their father's face, while they depend on him for everything!
|
|
|
Post by Occam's Spork on Jul 17, 2020 12:06:44 GMT 10
C.S.Lewis could find a lion and a witch in the wardrobe too. And Darwin believed turning a frog into a prince was only a matter of time...
|
|