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Post by Gort on Nov 13, 2020 10:27:21 GMT 10
This table is a stark picture of just how badly Labor's Primary Vote has suffered over the last several years.Labor needs to do something soon, else they are in real trouble.
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Post by Gort on Jan 2, 2021 8:49:22 GMT 10
So, the "official" announcement of the dumping of the Franking Credits policy today from Albo. The new catchcry is "Fake PM". Loved this comment in The Age ... GaryF 1 HOUR AGO "When it comes to Scott Morrison, I think Australians have started to work him out anyway. They see him as fake......"
Yes, Anthony, this is true but perhaps you need to do a little introspective self reflection. I suspect that many Australians - including those who see Morrison as a fake - see Anthony Albanese as a "weather vane" who is willing to dump sensible policies that would benefit Australia in pursuit of electors who will never, ever vote for Labor.
It's 2021. Labor needs a leader for this century, not one inculcated with the thinking of last century. And I say this as someone born in the 1950's......"Fake PM" the new slogan? Blimey, Labor is in real trouble.
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Post by pim on Jan 2, 2021 12:03:43 GMT 10
GST after the 1993 “unlosable” election? Remember John Howard’s “never ever”?
WorkChoices after the 2007 election? Remember Abbott’s “dead, buried and cremated”? That one’s not over. Scotty from Marketing fancies his chances.
And now franking credits. Yes Albo dropped it as policy. I don’t agree but I get it. Good policy doesn’t always win you an election, in fact it can lose an election. Look at how Vietnam buried Calwell Labor in 1966. But that doesn’t mean that the Calwell policy of “abolish conscription and end Australian troop deployment in Vietnam” was wrong. In fact it was the right policy and Whitlam was right to build on it. The Liberals would have ended conscription and withdrawn from Vietnam if Labor hadn’t done so but Labor had its policy act together.
With franking credits I think Albo’s wrong but I’m not going to die in a ditch over it. Spin it any way you like but this is 2021 which from every point of view is a completely different ball game from the May 2019 elections when Frydenberg could brag about “back to surplus” before there was one. And now there never will be one. Not in your lifetime and certainly not in mine. Trickle down economics is dead and so are franking credits. They’re going to be abolished and I wouldn’t be surprised if after an election win in 2021 a Morrison government hands down a budget during their next term in which franking credits are gone. Accompanied by the full Scotty from Marketing spin and blather but they’ll be dead buried and cremated. Enjoy them while you have them.
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Post by ponto on Jan 2, 2021 20:11:43 GMT 10
Franking credits equates to companies paying little tax and that is unsustainable unless people want a US health system and the tax burden is placed on the workers via low wages...it will be removed by stealth regardless of what is being stated by Albo.
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Post by pim on Jan 2, 2021 21:23:18 GMT 10
Then of course there's the big one. The giant woolly mammoth in every room: climate change and the persistent gravity defying climate exceptionalism on the part of coalition governments for the past generation. Why does the Coalition act as if it can ignore the climate crisis, and how long can it keep to this seemingly suicidal posture?
The time will come when there is a reckoning and when that happens none of the spin and blather of Scotty from Marketing, the guy who waltzed into the Australian Parliament waving a lump of coal, will save him or his government.
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Post by ponto on Jan 3, 2021 6:30:15 GMT 10
People who pay no tax should not be getting franking credits...simple and obvious that has to change and the coalition are being disingenuous with their hooplah that Labor is increasing taxes on retirees.
A company and an individual are separate legal entities. A profitable company should always have to pay some tax. The franking credit refund is a loophole where the share payers can potentially pay no tax....companies and individuals paying no tax means the tax burden is placed on low income workers.
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Post by Gort on Jan 3, 2021 9:58:36 GMT 10
Excuse the alliteration ... Ponto / Pim's pin-up pollie :
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Post by ponto on Jan 3, 2021 10:19:17 GMT 10
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Post by Gort on Jan 4, 2021 7:45:40 GMT 10
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Post by ponto on Jan 4, 2021 8:00:31 GMT 10
None he less Labor has always been the party for big changes....unlike your socialism for the rich Trump supporting mates the LNP.
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Post by Gort on Jan 4, 2021 8:09:16 GMT 10
None he less Labor has always been the party for big changes....unlike your socialism for the rich Trump supporting mates the LNP. Are you forgetting that Labor's policy was, by definition, going to hit the lowest income self-funded retirees?
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Post by ponto on Jan 4, 2021 9:11:47 GMT 10
Lowest income doesn't define wealth status and you know that.
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Post by Gort on Jan 4, 2021 9:12:33 GMT 10
Lowest income doesn't define wealth status and you know that. You can't eat your assets.
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Post by pim on Jan 4, 2021 11:13:40 GMT 10
Talking about eating your assets ...
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Post by ponto on Jan 4, 2021 12:27:08 GMT 10
Keating is right.....the conservatives think workers are a mere commodity...not as people that should be given a fair go. Franking credits are effectively driving down workers wages, keeping wages low so companies can increase profits that go to share holders, and those share holders that reinvest their dividends and live off their franking credits as income and declare they are low income earners while growing their wealth play their role in suppressing workers wages...franking credits is socialism for the rich, a ponzi scheme where the bubble will burst. And we are not talking low income workers who may have a small share portfolio and may receive a few hundred bucks in franking credits, to get $30,000 in Franking Credit revenue one has to have near at a minimum a million $ invested in shares.
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Post by Gort on Jan 4, 2021 17:32:06 GMT 10
Keating is right.....the conservatives think workers are a mere commodity...not as people that should be given a fair go. Franking credits are effectively driving down workers wages, keeping wages low so companies can increase profits that go to share holders, and those share holders that reinvest their dividends and live off their franking credits as income and declare they are low income earners while growing their wealth play their role in suppressing workers wages...franking credits is socialism for the rich, a ponzi scheme where the bubble will burst. And we are not talking low income workers who may have a small share portfolio and may receive a few hundred bucks in franking credits, to get $30,000 in Franking Credit revenue one has to have near at a minimum a million $ invested in shares. Ponts, you are still not getting it chum. Labor was going to withhold tax returns on people earning franking credit refunds. To be able to withhold the tax return from them, the person must be earning less than $18,000 odd total income. We're not talking franking credit income - but total income. If you earn less than 18,000 odd bucks total income, you pay no tax. Labor was going after those low income self-funded retirees who were earning less than $18,000 odd bucks and were due to have their "provisional tax" franking credits returned to them as a tax refund in July. By definition, Labor was going for the lowest income retirees. The rich bums were not affected! Rich bums would not qualify for a tax refund. Why don't you get that? Are you blind, deaf and dumb? Labor was ripping up the tax free threshold on people who gain their income from share dividends. Any other income was fine, but if you had share dividends only, then Labor was going to whack you, and only if your total income was below $18,000 odd bucks! It was an astonishingly discriminatory hit on one class of income. The most disgusting tax hit on low income people ever devised by Labor. No wonder they lost the "unlosable" election over it.
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Post by ponto on Jan 4, 2021 19:12:49 GMT 10
Your espousing Morrisons/Robert's misleading statements on franking credits, not even a deaf, dumb and blind kid who can play a mean pinball would fall for the nonsense Labor was going obtain $5 billion from poor ol' low income earners.
Once again...The claim
For months the Morrison Government has argued Labor’s controversial plan to raise more than $5 billion a year by scrapping refundable franking credits on dividends from shares is “not fair”.
In a speech to the Alliance for a Fairer Retirement System, Assistant Treasurer Stuart Robert said the plan would hit some of the lowest paid Australians.
“How is that fair on the lowest paid, those with low fixed incomes, those who are retired?” he said.
“It is not fair.
“Any changes will overwhelmingly hit low and middle-income earners, with 84 per cent of the individuals impacted on taxable incomes of less than $37,000 …”
Will the changes mostly hit low and middle-income earners, with 84 per cent on taxable incomes of less than $37,000? RMIT ABC Fact
Check investigates.
The verdict
Mr Robert’s claim is misleading.
He suggests Australia’s least well off will bear the brunt of the pain.
To make his case, Mr Robert relies on the taxable income of people claiming excess franking credits as a cash refund. This is problematic for a number of reasons.
First, taxable income does not include the largest source of income for many retirees: superannuation.
Superannuation income (for fund balances of up to $1.6 million) is generally not subject to tax in the retirement phase, and is therefore excluded from taxable income.
Second, in a related sense, taxable income often has little to do with wealth.
For example, the Grattan Institute has estimated that, when superannuation withdrawals are pared out of income data for retirees, almost half of the “wealthiest” 10 per cent of people over 65 report incomes of less than the $18,200 tax-free threshold.
Third, Labor’s policy applies to both individuals and superannuation funds. By focusing on individuals, Mr Robert is ignoring the impact that would flow through to members of superannuation funds, particularly self-managed superannuation funds, which account for almost half the refunds claimed.
Figures from the Parliamentary Budget Office show that almost a quarter of all refunds claimed in 2014-15 went to 33,761 self-managed superannuation funds with balances of over $2.4 million.
This is not to say the policy will have no impact on some individuals with modest incomes and wealth.
What is clear, however, is using the taxable income of individuals tells us little about the overall financial position of those affected, or about the fairness or otherwise of Labor’s policy.
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Post by Gort on Jan 4, 2021 23:13:21 GMT 10
Ponts, ya nong, on Bowen's own figures, he was hitting 850,000 accounts on average $5,000 I don't give a stuff about the rich bastards ... my concern was for those without super who had their life's savings in shares. To get $5,000 as tax returned on share dividends, and have Shorty; Bowen and Chalmers rip that away meant that some people, and I know of one case personally - where she would have lost 30% of her annual income - were going to have a massive impact on their low annual incomes. Those people genuinely on under $19,000 total income per year were going to get smashed by Labor's policy. Those bastards in Labor got what was coming to them ... an election loss for planning to hit the lowest income retirees. They copped a beating too.
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Post by ponto on Jan 5, 2021 9:22:49 GMT 10
From memory your eg has payed no tax and to get $5,000 in franking credits still means one has to have a substantial share portfolio, and 5K in franking credits means she is getting around 30K in dividends where most likely she is reinvesting those dividends....growing her share portfolio. She is no struggling battler.
To claim she is self funded retire is false as she is getting government tax revenue money, that has a net result in companies paying no tax because its all going to franking credits, and we all pay tax so all can benefit from what tax revenue brings, and its all going to all these poor "self funded" government funded retirees with low income..<note sarcasm.
You and the coalition do not talk of the dividends these people receive and super is meant to be something retirees draw down over the years, its not meant to grow super exponentially accumulating big wealth of inheritance for kids while the rest of the population pays for it and can get stuffed in their eyes...no worker or small business or sole trader pays tax and then gets it all back....yet those that have share portfolio's are gifted by the Howard government to moaning retirees.
And the government is changing laws forcing self funded retirees to draw down on their super rather than accumulate wealth living off franking credits...because of the imbalance the Howard designed franking credit structure created...simple.
Labor recognised that something had to change openly and the coalition are changing the structure by stealth.
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Post by Gort on Jan 5, 2021 9:32:30 GMT 10
Wrong again Ponts. About $15,000 in dividends = $5,000 Franking credits. Anyhoo ... your hero stuffed it up. Suffer in ya jocks.
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Post by pim on Jan 5, 2021 10:47:26 GMT 10
Wow we’ve really flushed Trickles out good and proper haven’t we. No more phony “progressive” stuff from him. He’s in his element along with bedfellows like Bronnie Bishop, Sophie Mirabella, Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones ...
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Post by Gort on Jan 5, 2021 10:49:00 GMT 10
The ill-fitting jacket gang.
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Post by Gort on Jan 5, 2021 14:30:41 GMT 10
... But here is the best part ... Shorty screwed over the Labor Party big time. If they had gone with Albo 6 years ago, they might have won. Now? They're stuffed.
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Post by ponto on Jan 5, 2021 14:44:54 GMT 10
Not wrong at all Gort Rorts....The point was these people are living off franking credits reinvesting their dividends while merrily growing their super fund..these are not poor suckers who have structured their super around franking credits, also Labor had the 'pensioner guarantee' where pension and allowance recipients, even part pensioners, would be exempt from the changes and would continue to receive cash payments. Conveniently omitted by the ScoMo government and there on board echo chamber Gorts Rorts spreading misinformation.
Labor's policy proposal was to restore the imputation system to where it had been before Howard changed it in 2001, and to where it still is elsewhere. Tax credits could be used to eliminate a tax payment but not to turn it negative. The Howard system is no longer sustainable and now cost $8 bill a year and growing...the government is paying for high level wealth creating pensions with the scheme.
Socialism for the rich.
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Post by Gort on Jan 5, 2021 14:51:21 GMT 10
Nup, sorry Ponts. Totally wrong. In fact: you wallow in your wrongness. Meanwhile: Your heroes lost. Chow down old boy ...
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