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Post by pim on May 27, 2019 9:12:09 GMT 10
They’d better pray that their much-vaunted budget surplus actually happens
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Post by pim on May 27, 2019 11:15:15 GMT 10
Still obsessing? But your guys won!
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 12:04:42 GMT 10
Oh no not those poor people with a million bucks in shares feeling hard done by....
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Post by pim on May 27, 2019 12:10:14 GMT 10
Why?
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Post by pim on May 27, 2019 13:35:08 GMT 10
"Factional warlords" - only Labor has them? Using your loaded term "factional warlords" only to save time while rejecting the term as part of the arsenal of shallow loaded terms so typical of Australian journalistic sloth (rhymes with "both" and not "cloth" )
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Post by pim on May 27, 2019 14:21:03 GMT 10
There's fact, and there's opinion ...
Who are these "factional warlords"?
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Post by pim on May 27, 2019 15:04:08 GMT 10
So who are these so-called "factional warlords" (your term, not mine)? Name them.
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Post by pim on May 27, 2019 15:44:32 GMT 10
OK, so you can't name any. So you reduce what could be a productive debate about factions and loaded terms to describe party factionalism to empty posturing and grandstanding. Why am I not surprised
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Post by pim on May 27, 2019 16:04:06 GMT 10
Manneken Pis? In Brussels? He pisses champagne. Make mine Veuve Clicquot. Merci.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 16:14:35 GMT 10
All Labor yas to do,is to keep quite for a while on its policies and let the coalition do all the talking which will end up with their foots in ther mouths sinking the whole leg in....the LNP are ideologically committed to no action on climate change....coal has a life span of 10-20 years after that no country will want it.
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Post by pim on May 29, 2019 14:46:47 GMT 10
All Labor yas to do,is to keep quite for a while on its policies and let the coalition do all the talking which will end up with their foots in ther mouths sinking the whole leg in....the LNP are ideologically committed to no action on climate change....coal has a life span of 10-20 years after that no country will want it. Ponto as a Labor Party member I just got this email from Albo ...
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Post by pim on May 29, 2019 15:16:38 GMT 10
Whatever. I wasn't talking to you. I'm interested in what Ponto has to say.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 16:07:21 GMT 10
Given the result where people in conservatives seats Labor gained votes though these people would be most effected by changes to franking credits and higher tax rates policies it was as these good people were better informed and hold a genuine belief in fairness for all Australians, unlike the greedy Self Managed Super baby boomer people who had it good throughout their lives couldn't see beyond their wallets and just wanting and expecting more.
Conclusion from election result, other than Shorto was always going to be a liability, is to better inform the people about fairness and the greater good...rather than the deceit of the LNP that is all about trickle down economics.
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Post by pim on May 29, 2019 16:25:17 GMT 10
The Australian people have had it pretty good ever since the Hawke/Keating restructuring and makeover of the Australian economy kicked in during the Howard years and they took the credit. That was a generation ago. Actually according to the commentariat Australia has chalked up 26 years of economic growth and prosperity. The Morrison government acts on the assumption that the next 26 years are going to be the same as the last 26 years. No planning, no policies, no vision. The Australian people bought the snake oil of vote for us and the future is the same as the past and rejected Labor's truth-telling. Oh yes we're concerned about climate change and we think something should be done, but whatever it is we don't want it to cost us anything and as regards a more equitable distribution of wealth through taxation reform, bullocks to that. We want our Howard era tax rorts to continue. We want to believe ScoMo when he tells us that private affluence and public squalor is good as long as we're not the ones putting up with the public squalor.
That mindset has to have a shelf life which is why Albo Labor has to keep up the truth-telling.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 6:24:13 GMT 10
Howard years were the most damaging to the economy....turned franking credits is a massive rort...skewed education and health funding to favour the private sector..and ScoMo and Wilson were effective with deceit over franking credits that it had all pensioners thinking they were losing something they never had, not even holding shares or understanding what franking credits were, the people today are not that well informed, switched off from politics.
Shorto in the public's mind was instrumental in bringing down the popular Rudd government, where Rudd was able to bring along the majority of the nation with the need for climate change action, which includes people and business thinking it was an important issue and something had to be done, and that has never been forgiven and why Shorto was unpopular and deemed untrustworthy,....all the LNP had to do was say Labor, Labor, Labor to worry the electorate.....alas the Rudd assassination fiasco has damaged Labor and agreeing with trickles most likely Labor will lose the next election unless Albo can miraculously turn things around.
For the parties sake Shorto is better off to resign from parliament.
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Post by pim on May 30, 2019 8:08:15 GMT 10
Early days on that last one. Not all former Labor leaders have played a destructive role. I'm not necessarily thinking about Kim Beasley because while on the one hand he did cast a shadow over Simon Crean and the appalling Mark Latham so that after Latham lost them the 2004 interest rates elections the party turned to Beasley again - or rather the NSW Right recycled him. On the other hand Beasley was never vindictive as an opposition backbencher. He's basically too decent for that. He also did play a constructive role in the parliament from the backbench. His speech giving a critique of the Iraq invasion ("this is a diplomatic disaster") was the best and sharpest analysis and critique of the Howard government involvement in Bush's "Coalition of the Willing". So Beasley did play a constructive non-undermining role from the Opposition backbench. Bill Hayden is another example of a leader who was toppled (in his case most cruelly) and went on to play an outstanding role as foreign minister in the Hawke government.
For the next Labor guy to play a post leadership role on the backbench without undermining the leader who replaced him you'd have to go back to Arthur Calwell who in my view is a Labor treasure and icon. Cocky Calwell was magnificent in defeat in the 1966 Vietnam elections. To me this is the other great example of Labor getting hammered in an election for its truth-telling. The difference with Shorten is that while Shorten Labor narrowly lost after running a truth-telling campaign that it expected to win, Calwell Labor was almost wiped out as a result of its truth-telling on Vietnam and conscription in an election it expected to lose anyway. After the 1966 elections Cocky Calwell went to the backbench when Whitlam took over and watched while Whitlam gave the Labor Party a complete makeover which buried the Curtin/Chifley model that Cocky Calwell had so much been a part of. Calwell stayed on the backbench for two terms until the "It's Time" elections of 1972 and retired before those elections. I forget what his electorate was. Some impeccably working class inner Melbourne constituency that was solid working class back then but would be gentrified to buggery these days*. Calwell died during the Whitlam years. They gave him a good send off as was only appropriate. He got a Canberra suburb named after him. But Cocky Calwell spent six years on the backbench after taking over as leader from the tragic Doc Evatt and waging a magnificent and heroic but hopeless fight against the Menzies government not just on Vietnam (his finest hour) but also on domestic policy. He came to within two seats of defeating Menzies in the credit squeeze election of 1961. The guy is one of my Labor heroes. He never undermined and was never vindictive from the backbench.
So there are precedents for ex leaders conducting themselves honourably. I'd give Bill Shorten the benefit of the doubt. I suspect that the toxic Murdoch media will continue to go after Shorten in the belief that he represents weakness. Particularly if under Albo Labor starts to develop some momentum. Certainly I expect Trickles to continue spamming the board with his bizarre Shorten obsession. If Shorten had gone to the backbench I would have taken that as a sign that he was setting himself up for an exit from parliament during this term. A by election is probably the last thing Albo needs right now so Shorten stays in parliament. Not only that but he stays on the front bench so he intends to play a role. Good for him. I'd give Shorten one term and he won't contest in 2022.
*I was right. The electorate was Melbourne which has now gone to the Green MP Adam Bandt
Sic transit gloria mundi
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Post by pim on May 30, 2019 9:59:59 GMT 10
Fuck off Trickles! Stop playing the victim you pathetic wimp. I made a passing and entirely justified reference to you in a lengthy detailed discussion of ex-Labor leaders who remained in parliament and played constructive roles. I make no apology for calling you out on the way you spam the board with your Shorten- bashing obsession which continues even after the election. If the criticism is justified - and it is - then man up and take it on the chin you miserable creep. I discuss. You bore everyone shitless. Ever notice?
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Post by pim on May 30, 2019 10:09:22 GMT 10
Ponto I’ll get back to you. He’s obviously making another attempt to torpedo the discussion I’m having with you in order to hijack the thread with his victim whining. We’ll have to leapfrog him.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 10:35:48 GMT 10
And will remain so for sometime...it made people really angry as a lost opportunity, it wasn't the LNP that destroyed Labor it was Labor itself, where people are still angry over it all and haven't forgiven the sheer bastardy of it constructed by the party RW and selfish Unions....and it was the Unions that got rid of Shorto...poetic justice.
There are people like me that will vote Labor as rusted on, not perfect but whole lot better than the LNP, and there are many who think a lot harder on forgiveness.
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Post by pim on May 30, 2019 10:50:56 GMT 10
You’re too apocalyptic in your analysis Ponto. Labor was « destroyed »? Get a grip man. It lost, sure, but narrowly. Does it hurt? Of course it does. It’s a shit sandwich! Are there lessons to be learned and analyses to be undertaken? Of course there are. Big time! But are there blame games to be indulged in? Albo gave a clear answer to that when he warmly thanked Bill Shorten for his leadership since 2013 and the caucus elected him to the front bench. Time to move on. Labor under Albo’s leadership certainly has. You should too.
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Post by pim on May 30, 2019 12:57:52 GMT 10
Trickles and his "factional warlords" stuff again. He pretends that he's "in the know". Trust me he isn't. As a party member I could tell you a thing or two about factions but I won't sit by and allow a mountebank like Trickles to define ALP internal politics. I challenged him a couple of days ago to name the factional warlords and he couldn't/wouldn't. The other fact is that that Trickles wouldn't vote Labor in a fit as long as it is committed to abolish the Howard era middle class welfare and featherbedding such as franking credits. So the last person Labor needs gratuitous advice from is this Liberal turkey.
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Post by pim on May 30, 2019 16:39:38 GMT 10
I take it you don't wish Albo well. I'm sure (not!) that he's perched on the edge of his seat biting his fingernails down to the quick
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 18:03:33 GMT 10
Destroyed is not quite right...harmed better.....bottom line is trust has been eroded and people couldn't trust Labor with their hip pocket finances which came first...though the wealthy got it.
Tne trojan horse thread shows the LNP are driving towards a US style economy, long known, and that will simply create inequality with the poor being hardest hit.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 10:21:16 GMT 10
Labor loss it has been analysed, picked over and rah de rah.....always the focus on Labor by the media, the LNP and its cyber influencer's hollering....Labor Labor Labor for the fluff society....even Trump is now going Russia Russia Russia...to divert focus while corruption abounds.
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Post by pim on Jun 12, 2019 19:38:50 GMT 10
I'm not at all surprised by the feeble attempt at schadenfreude in your post Trickles. What's a "happy family" in your universe? One in which everyone sings Kumbaya from the same songsheet? Some anodyne feel good club in which everyone simpers at each other and makes "nice"? How pathetic. Have you ever been a member of a blue colour union with a history of militancy? Ever wondered about that history. Ever entertained the slightest soupcon of curiousity not coloured by the anti-union animus that seems to drive you? I have. Before I went into teaching. Even blue colour conservative unions like the old federated ironworkers which back in the day was run by grouper DLP (I think it was Laurie Short as distinct from Laurie Carmichael who was communist party) found themselves having to become ornery and press the class warfare button when dealing with corporate intransigence on the part of the BHP who employed their members. So of course other blue colour union bosses are going to come to Setka's defence and support him. This is an early test of Albo's leadership. Watch this space. I wish Albo well. You don't because you're a Labor hating class warrior for the bosses who has been forced out of the closet so that your hostility is there in the open for all to see.
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