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Post by matt on Dec 2, 2012 14:30:01 GMT 10
What do you find more important and why?
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Post by jody on Dec 2, 2012 16:20:26 GMT 10
Faith and Spirituality are very important to me.
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Post by jody on Dec 2, 2012 18:59:30 GMT 10
I have never been a church goer Buzz. My faith and spirituality comes from my experiences.
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Post by jody on Dec 2, 2012 19:20:17 GMT 10
I guess some do and some don't. No one could accuse Fat of being a liar.
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Post by garfield on Dec 2, 2012 19:40:54 GMT 10
The Aborigines knew of no god, Jesus did not bother to visit Australia ( or a lot of other places for that matter ) and enlighten the Aborigine to the wonders of God, it took people to introduce it to them, Indonesia is a muslim country because the muslims got to them first, if the catholics got there first they'd all be catholic like South America, people are easily led, most of them will believe any old crap they are fed, just ask Pastor Brian Houston he's an expert in the field of gullibility in humans.
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Post by jody on Dec 2, 2012 19:45:23 GMT 10
Yes you should know that Buzz.
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Post by Salem on Dec 2, 2012 19:54:31 GMT 10
I can't vote Matt because Faith and spirituality, but not religion.
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Post by fat on Dec 2, 2012 19:57:53 GMT 10
I put faith. I have faith that the witnesses attest to the truth of what they saw and heard. That at this one point in all of history God (even knowing what would happen) became one of us - helpless and frail - a baby named Jesus - entrusted not to the rich or aristocratic but to a lowly family. That this Jesus then showed us as best we could understand what the nature of God is. His last words as he was crucified were of forgiveness for those who did it.
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Post by garfield on Dec 2, 2012 20:05:27 GMT 10
I put faith. I have faith that the witnesses attest to the truth of what they saw and heard. That at this one point in all of history God (even knowing what would happen) became one of us - helpless and frail - a baby named Jesus - entrusted not to the rich or aristocratic but to a lowly family. That this Jesus then showed us as best we could understand what the nature of God is. His last words as he was crucified were of forgiveness for those who did it.
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Post by garfield on Dec 2, 2012 20:21:58 GMT 10
God came into to Jody and Fats lives and gave them faith ... then he said shhhh don't tell Buzz and Garfield ;D
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Post by fat on Dec 2, 2012 22:56:30 GMT 10
No Buzz - when I say God I mean the creator of the cosmos. When YOU say God you think of all that other stuff.
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Post by fat on Dec 2, 2012 23:02:56 GMT 10
Garfield - your clock has no hands. Ooops - I wasn't supposed to tell you that. Ssssh! Ah Yes Buzz - The force is strong in this one but he denies it's power.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 12:18:26 GMT 10
What if there isn't a "sentient" creator of the cosmos? What if it was always there? Well if you take any interest in science, there is no creator - its just a fairy tale. Well if there is no creator and you're just an accidental combination of chemicals on 3rd rock from the sun why should we take your judgment as having any value at all? You're always condemning molesting priests but tell me , in your worldview, if you're just a random lucky collection of chemicals where do morals come from? Where do morals come emerge from whirling masses of protons, electrons and neutrons ? And if you are just a lucky survivor from evolution then you're mind is programmed primarily for survival and reproduction not to finding truth so again why should we take the opinion of a collective mass of chemicals as having any credibility?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 12:22:53 GMT 10
Well if there is no creator and you're just an accidental combination of chemicals on 3rd rock from the sun why should we take your judgment as having any value at all? Well....presumably your creator is just an accidental combination of chemicals. Or if some other creator created your creator, then who created the creator's creator? And what about the creator's creator? Did a creator's creator's creator create the creator's creator? Was there a creator's creator's creator's creator before that? And was that creator's creator's creator's creator created, or did that creator's creator's creator's creator evolve as a result of an accidental combination of chemicals? Well??
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Post by jody on Dec 3, 2012 12:26:10 GMT 10
God always was and will always be. There was no creator of God. God is all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 12:26:50 GMT 10
No KTJ, since mass is a product of the existing Universe then whoever created the Universe must not contain mass.
And your creators, creator ..... well again that's nonsense since you are only pushing the problem of the first cause further and further back into time without resolving it.
Thirdly your proposed dilema rebounds on you as you face the same problem in your first cause of the Universe. Which was btw?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 12:29:34 GMT 10
God always was and will always be. There was no creator of God. God is all. Exactly Jody!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 12:34:15 GMT 10
Apes and Chimpanzees have morals and rules. They evolved. many species of animals have structures and rules. Human morals come from the fact that we live together and we need rules.
No, wrong. Apes and Chimpanzees have rules. These rules are there to aid survival not because they inherently value the sanctity of life. They only exist to assist the tribe, they do not promote morality at all.
Again where do morals emerge from swirling masses of proton , electons and neutrons?
Secondly morals presuppose a yardstick. In evolution who decides this yardstick? And is the yardstick only what is beneficial as Darwin says for survival and reproduction - if so why not kill the deformed and weak ?
And without God there are no moral absolutes so it's whatever the mob decides - and in view of human history that is a VERY DANGEROUS VIEW.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 12:47:33 GMT 10
Ancestry has nothing to do with this discussion Buzz we are talking morality ( or were last time I looked ).
How do you get morals from a swirling mass of protons, electrons and neutrons or carbonaceous chemistry?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 13:29:19 GMT 10
Because the Universe began to exist and everything that began to exist has a cause. The Universe is contingent.
Secondly you are assigning yourself into the very peghole you condemn in Christians. If we say God has always existed you mock that as convenience now you ascribing the same characteristic to your chosen model.
Thirdly - the Universe consists of space-time, time is a feature of the space-time continuum, part of the fabric of space which makes our Universe. Since God is outside, indeed created the space-time continuum, eternal existance is not an issue.
So the creation cause of the Universe must be - non-contingent, infinately powerful and timeless. Whilst this does not prove the God of the Bible it is pretty similiar to his described attributes.
Fourthly if the Universe was eternal then every eventuality that could ever have been must have been played out since there is infinite time in the past for every possible eventuality to have occured. That must also include the eventuality that the Universe ceased to exist and was never recreated. That eventuality must have occured in an infinite time past. Since it has not it is a pretty powerful indicator there has not been infinite time in the past thus nullifying the infinite cosmos theory.
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Post by jody on Dec 3, 2012 13:45:12 GMT 10
Man can only create what God has given him the ability to create. Everything is of God.
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Post by jody on Dec 3, 2012 13:50:54 GMT 10
Because Man didn't create God....simple as that.
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Post by jody on Dec 3, 2012 14:21:22 GMT 10
Earl, I know God is very real...as real as I am sitting typing this on my computer. My experiences have proved to me 100% that God is there, there for us all, we just have to be able to accept that. It is undeniable for those who have their own proof and I do. Too much has happened in my life, too much proof to the existence of a higher being for me to deny it and think it is something else, something just in my mind...mental illness as Buzz likes to call it. God is as real as you and me Earl. You deny, I accept it. Praise the Lord for the gift of choice.
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Post by jody on Dec 3, 2012 14:27:50 GMT 10
Your choice to see whatever "light" was shown to you earl. When I see people like you go on and on and try to throw your darts of doubt...I just shake my head and feel a bit sorry for you.....but no more than that. You have chosen your path.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 14:32:17 GMT 10
I used to think like you Jody. However, I saw the light. Sorry Earl but based on some of the misunderstandings I've seen you make I doubt it. I don't say that to insult you but describing salvation between works and faith as a 'minor theological difference' shows my point.
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