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Post by KTJ on Dec 8, 2015 9:03:28 GMT 10
Is that clown Pell still breathing?
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Post by KTJ on Dec 8, 2015 9:07:33 GMT 10
Anyway, the television drama series âDEVIL'S PLAYGROUNDâ was a good watch.
I finally got around to viewing it (all six episodes in one session) earlier this year.
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Post by pim on Dec 15, 2015 9:41:49 GMT 10
Fugitives from justice: Roman Catholic priestsmedia.apps.chicagotribune.com/fugitives/priests.htmlAnd then there's this.. Bernard Francis Law, Cardinal and Archbishop of Boston, Massachusetts, United States, resigned after Church documents were revealed which suggested he had covered up sexual abuse committed by priests in his archdiocese.[115] On 13 December 2002, Pope John Paul II accepted Law's resignation as Archbishop and reassigned him to an administrative position in the Roman Curia, naming him archpriest of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, and he later presided at one of the Pope's funeral masses. Law's successor in Boston, Archbishop (later Cardinal) SeĂĄn P. O'Malley, found it necessary to sell substantial real estate properties and close a number of churches in order to pay the $120 million in claims against the archdiocese. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases#United_States_2Will George Pell, now in the twilight of his life, go down not as a successor of Australia's first Cardinal, Frank Moran, who battled Henry Parkes in colonial NSW to set up Australia's powerful Catholic school system and did more than any other prominent Australian Catholic prelate before or since to give Catholics (mostly of Irish stock back then) a stake in Australia to spare them the active discrimination against Irish Catholics as disloyal "Fenians" that was so prevalent elsewhere, or will George Pell end his days a pathetic fugitive in the Vatican?
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 17, 2015 19:41:42 GMT 10
Cardinal George Pell has refused to appear at a royal commission into sex abuse in the Catholic Church, stating he is simply too sick to fabricate the amount of false stories needed. âThe web of lies I like to spin requires a fair bit of mental agility,â Mr Pell claimed in a statement. âI have been battling the flu this week and I donât see how I would be able to keep track of all of my convoluted deceit in this depleted physical state.â The Cardinal has an immaculate record when it comes to distorting the truth, one he wants to ensure he maintains at this inquiry. âI have a reputation to maintain frankly, however I do look forward to getting back to spinning fanciful yarns as soon as possible,â Pell said. www.thefaultreport.com.au/uncategorized/pell-claims-he-is-too-sick-to-lie-at-inquiry/
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Post by pim on Dec 23, 2015 22:26:24 GMT 10
Now it seems that same Reverend John Thomas Walsh stands accused of abusing children as well.
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Post by jody on Dec 27, 2015 9:22:21 GMT 10
FFS if they change their stupid rules and just let priests marry, this shit would would occur far less often.
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Post by pim on Dec 27, 2015 22:04:42 GMT 10
I agree that Catholic priests should be allowed to marry. In fact priestly celibacy was one of the first trappings of Roman Catholicism that the Protestant Reformation did away with. Note I said "should be allowed to". I didn't say "should be required to". There's nothing wrong with religious asceticism per se and I remain unconvinced that priestly celibacy is the smoking gun in the abuse of children by priests. The royal commission is uncovering paedophile behaviour among married Protestant clergy - look at the scandals that have come to light among Anglican clergy and also in the Salvation Army. And by the same token there are many celibate Catholic priests who have never abused a child. Don't think that by abolishing priestly celibacy among Catholic clergy that at a stroke you'll solve the paedophilia issue. It goes much much deeper. I think the issue of child abuse is being exposed by the royal commission as not a collection of isolated criminal acts by individuals but as something systemic and cultural which involve not just sins of commission but also sins of omission - not just evil acts that people do, but also what they fail to do. This is not just a social/legal crisis but also moral and spiritual. It's probably the most profound moral and spiritual crisis of organised Christianity since the Reformation of 500 years ago.
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Post by slartibartfast on Dec 28, 2015 22:57:52 GMT 10
It's a miracle. George is leading tours around the Vatican.
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Post by slartibartfast on Feb 20, 2016 6:56:57 GMT 10
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Post by pim on Feb 20, 2016 7:58:22 GMT 10
It will be if it results in a conviction. Letâs not try him on the board. Look at it this way slarti, I think Pell has left himself open to the accusation that he joins that Boston cardinal Law as the latest clerical fugitive seeking asylum in the Vatican from their countryâs judiciary who wishes to question them about what they allegedly failed to do as senior members of the church hierarchy while kiddy fiddling took place on their watch. It's a very bad look. In the meantime the church hierarchy and its allies in the media and in conservative politics are desperately looking for any way of portraying Pell as some sort, any sort, of "victim" of persecution. The example I'm thinking of is Gerard Henderson yesterday morning whinging about that song. I haven't really listened to the song since I'm not really into that sort of music. I'm more a baroque kinda guy. You have to be careful with the latest accusation that Pell was not just into sins of omission but also of crimes of commission. If that latest set of vague unspecified accusations turns out to be unfounded then the Gerard Hendersons of this world really will be able to portray Pell as a "victim" of politically correct hounding and hysteria. And the cause of justice for the real victims of child abuse by members of the clergy - that is, the people who had been abused as kids and who have found the courage to come forward, will be set back immensely.
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Post by pim on Feb 20, 2016 15:02:37 GMT 10
You see? You're so obsessed with your atheist "truth" (god -yes, that entity - spare us from religious zealots, atheist zealots and indeed obsessive zealots of all shades and hues) that you'd even turn the issue of George Pell and sexual predation on kids into low rent point-scoring about your batshit-boring (yawn) "atheism". Thus endeavouring to stop the discussion about Pell and the high level Australian investigative process regarding the culture of sexual predation on children on the part of adult members of institutions with duty of care responsibilities regarding children, and turning it into a cheap shot about (yawn) "atheism".
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Post by pim on Feb 21, 2016 7:27:46 GMT 10
I'm not getting into that. The issue of kiddy fiddling as part of an institutional culture among people whose profession it is to exercise a duty of care towards kids, and the significance of the royal commission which has been tasked with leaving no stone unturned in its investigation into that culture, has reached right up into the Vatican itself with the George Pell matter. This is sensational stuff. Not even the Irish inquiry which preceded the Australian enquiry and which had many parallels with the Australian royal commission, was so far-reaching. By allowing himself to be seen as a fugitive cowering in the Vatican, George Pell involves the Vatican, the Roman Curia and even the Pope in the Australian enquiry into clerical paedophilia. What Pell is doing gives the Australian enquiry a global significance. This is huge.
But you can't see that. Instead you want to spam the board with your obsessive political correctness about your brand of lollipop "atheism". Talk about the "perfect" being the enemy of the "good"! You're as bad as the Greens!
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Post by pim on Feb 21, 2016 20:07:08 GMT 10
Y e e e s, I agree the anecdote is heart wrenching. At least it's more on topic than your politically correct rants about your lollipop "atheism". Have you seen the movie "Spolight"? I did this afternoon. That guy Cardinal Law has been a fugitive in the Vatican since the early 1990s over what he'd failed to do in the interests of kids in the Boston archdiocese of which he'd been archbishop as no fewer than 250 priests practised kiddy fiddling on his watch. Apparently he resigned from his Boston gig and was given a cushy number in the Vatican where he's been ever since, safe from US law enforcement which would love to question him. Now Pell joins Law as the latest fugitive in the Vatican. I think this is worth talking about. Don't you??
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Post by slartibartfast on Feb 21, 2016 20:45:24 GMT 10
The only thing worse than a paedophile is someone who defends and protects them by moving them from parish to parish. George Pell, that is you!
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Post by pim on Feb 21, 2016 20:59:24 GMT 10
You may call Atheism "lollipop" ... I call Theism "all day sucker". Whatever ...
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Post by pim on Feb 23, 2016 23:05:59 GMT 10
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Post by pim on Feb 23, 2016 23:34:28 GMT 10
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Post by pim on Feb 23, 2016 23:58:39 GMT 10
You may call Atheism "lollipop" ... No, I don't call atheism per se "lollipop". It's a challenging philosophical position to take and it isn't for everyone. The absurd universe that is godless and therefore without purpose is mind boggling. For example I read today in an online science publication about an entire galaxy that's moving at over 1000 km a second and which leaves in its wake a dust cloud that's 300 000 light years across. I don't doubt the truth of what the publication describes. Thatâs not an issue for me. But itâs a concept so vast it's impossible for me to imagine, let alone comprehend. And no I'm not trying to get into some sort of word game about "faith" or that "trusting science" is just another form of "religion" or "belief system". Thatâs bullshit too. I mention the speeding galaxy and the 300 000 light year wide dust cloud because with or without God the scope and size of the cosmos is of a vastness that surpasses all understanding. There's a grandeur and something that's so awe-inspiring in that which is not dissimilar to the awe that some people get from contemplating the Divine. It's OK, I'm not trying to "prove" anything because God or no God the Infinite is unknowable and therefore unprovable. I've encountered and read atheists who share that awe. Darwin experienced it in describing the rich tapestry of life that is the result of natural selection. Read the closing paragraphs of his Origin of Species and you'll see it for yourself. My daughter experienced it in her PhD research into plate tectonics when she described the immense geological forces at work in shaping continents. I don't disrespect atheism per se. Just yours.
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Post by pim on Feb 24, 2016 7:23:25 GMT 10
And I know yours ... shallow /ÊalÉÊ/ adjective 1. of little depth. "serve the noodles in a shallow bowl" 2. not exhibiting, requiring, or capable of serious thought. "a shallow analysis of contemporary society" synonyms: superficial, facile, glib, simplistic, oversimplified, schematic, slight, flimsy, insubstantial, lightweight, empty, trivial, trifling; M
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Post by sonex on Feb 28, 2016 8:07:59 GMT 10
An extremely logical and succinct article by Peter Fitzsimons in the Age. "With forensic fervour, Marr dissects Cardinal Pell's position noting that, even though the abuse of children was happening all around him for 30 years, even though many witnesses have come forward and explicitly testified that they TOLD Pell it was going on, still the Cardinal maintains "he knew nothing â nothing while he was a priest in Ballarat about the paedophiles around him, and little about these men and their victims in his years as an auxiliary bishop in Melbourne. He was never in the loop. No one warned him. No one complained to him. He didn't read that letter or this report. It never came up at meetings. There's nothing in the minutes. There's nothing in the files." Read more: www.smh.com.au/comment/now-thats-progress-20160226-gn4dqu.html#ixzz41PNmSaUJ Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook
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Post by sonex on Feb 29, 2016 14:22:59 GMT 10
Pell declares that "The Church" made enormous mistakes ... Err ... would that mean the leadership? Would that mean the accessories after the fact? Would that mean the perverters of the course of justice? Would that mean PELL himself? Yes to all of the above. "mistakes" is far to mild an expression. The church and its clergy closed their eyes and actually abetted the crime of the systematic rape of children. I believe it comes under the description of "Crimes against humanity"
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Post by sonex on Feb 29, 2016 15:24:25 GMT 10
Actually, the expression "Crimes against humanity" may seem somewhat hyperbolic, I used this expression on the following basis. "âCrimes against humanityâ include any of the following acts committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack" Rape is one of the acts. These acts were systemic and were committed in many, many countries throughout the world. The following is a link to the countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country
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Post by pim on Mar 1, 2016 22:24:41 GMT 10
This is of interest: the very fact that Pell has pleaded illness prevents him from undertaking the long voyage to Australia to front up before the Royal Commission so that his evidence has to be given by videolink from Rome has attracted the attention of the Italian media - and not just the Italians. Apparently there's quite a gathering of international media at the Hotel Quirinale where Pell is giving his videolink testimony. Unfortunately I don't speak Italian however through French, vestiges of schoolboy Latin and also my Linguistics training I'm able to deconstruct and unpack enough written Italian to get the gist of an article. The publication La Repubblica is at the quality end of the Italian media so it's a serious newspaper. Here's what it says ... Pedofilia, i giudici australiani: difficile che il cardinale Pell non sapesseSecondo giorno della deposizione del prelato in videoconferenza da Roma con la commissione d'inchiesta sugli abusi di Ballarat. "Ho il pieno appoggio di papa Francesco". Poi declina ogni responsabilitĂ sui trasferimenti del sacerdote Gerald Ridsdale, dice che non sapeva delle violenze e dice: "Una storia triste ma non di grande interesse per me" www.repubblica.it/vaticano/2016/03/01/news/pedofilia_pell_australia-134528017/The headline means something like the "judges" (giudici) are finding it difficult to determine what cardinal Pell actually knew. The piece reports that on the second day of the inquiry Pell declares that he has the full support of the pope. He "declines" any responsiblity regarding Ridsdale's transfers from parish to parish and finally the devastating statement that it's a sad story but it didn't hold much interest for him. What follows is quite a lengthy and detailed report on the background and the actual royal commission itself. The Italian media report doesn't actually tell us Australians anything we don't already know. But what's noteworthy is that by his refusal to return to Australia and his insistence on giving his evidence from his safe haven in the Vatican, Pell has attracted serious attention from the world's media. He's landed the Vatican right in it. He says "the Pope supports me!" Yeah right, like a rope supports a hanged man!
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Post by sonex on Mar 2, 2016 8:05:04 GMT 10
Pell declares that "The Church" made enormous mistakes ... Err ... would that mean the leadership? Would that mean the accessories after the fact? Would that mean the perverters of the course of justice? Would that mean PELL himself? "Accessories after the fact" ? Yes I believe so. These foul men who deliberately failed to protect the children should be charged and jailed. CRIMES ACT 1914 - SECT 6 Accessory after the fact Any person who receives or assists another person, who is, to his or her knowledge, guilty of any offence against a law of the Commonwealth, in order to enable him or her to escape punishment or to dispose of the proceeds of the offence shall be guilty of an offence. Penalty: Imprisonment for 2 years.
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Post by pim on Mar 2, 2016 11:43:18 GMT 10
An important point sonex which raises disturbing questions regarding not just the church hierarchy but more broadly the criminal justice system as a whole. To what extent have the police and even the judiciary been complicit in the cover ups? How far does this royal commission have to go? How many hares does it have to chase down how many borrows? We know that the evil reaches right up into the Vatican - and how far into the Vatican is a "known unknown" - but what remains to be exposed among law enforcement and judiciary that will reveal the reason why the clergy have appeared to get off scott free? And will it stop there? Will it lead into the realm of politics? The Irish enquiry took 9 years of investigating before it was ready to bring down its devastating findings. It seems that the scope of the Australian enquiry is so vast that it could - and therefore probably should - take longer.
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