Cyrus the Great - Zoroastrian

[Deleted]

Now for some reason Dib, you have an inflexible thinking process and when new evidence comes in you cannot change your conclusion.

Well here is some more reality for you to ignore. Cyrus the Great was Zoroastrian.

1. At his palace at Pasagardae, the remains of fire-holders have been recovered. These fire holders had 3 steps and 3 levels and the number 3 is important for Zoroastrians - Good thoughts - Good words - Good deeds.

2. Praying before fire is a Zoroastrian ritual.

3. Greek writers recorded he had a daughter called Atossa (Hutaosa) which is a very Zoroastrian name for a girl.

4. The style of the man as King, ruling justly and well and in accordance with "Asha" a Zoroastrian principle, as recorded in Isaiah.

5. The tomb of Cyrus is very Zoroastrian and befitting a Zoroastrian king. It is raised off the ground so his corpse would not defile the earth.

6. Over the doorway to his tomb was carvings of symbols of immortality in a Zoroastrian paradise. Cambyses had Zoroastrian sacrifices conducted at the tomb with Zoroastrian rituals and the sacrifice of a sheep every day, and a horse (the special Zoroastrian sacrificial animal) every month for 2 hundred years after the death of Cyrus. Arrian, VI, 29, 7.

7. The Zoroastrian sacrificial rites only ended with Alexander the Great's conquest of Persia and the tomb was broken into and despoiled. The contents of the tomb were recorded and were Zoroastrian. Strabo, XV, 3.7.

8. The Iranians regarded anyone non Iranian as barbarians, and Zoroastrian and Iranian was one and the same thing and the Denkard, Book 3, ch 80. Purity Laws prohibited mixed marriages, and so only those with two Zoroastrian parents, who were Iranian, could be a Zoroastrian.

In summary, Cyrus prayed like a Zoroastrian, had a daughter with a Zoroastrian name, ruled with Zoroastrian principles, was buried in a Zoroastrian tomb in accordance with Zoroastrian purity laws, had ritual Zoroastrian sacrifices at his tomb every single day for 200 years, and had Zoroastrian symbols carved on the entrance to his tomb which contained Zoroastrian artifacts.

Cyrus the Great was a Zoroastrian, because his son and grandson were Zoroastrians. So just because after 2,500 years, there has been nothing found carved on a rock, saying he was a Zoroastrian, does not mean he was not a Zoroastrian. The overwhelming evidence I have presented here shows that Cyrus the Great was indeed and in fact a Zoroastrian. Just because it has not been found, does not mean it wasn't there. It could easily have been destroyed over the last 2,500 years. In 2,500 years from now, I doubt if there will be much carved on a rock saying you were a Christian.

However, it was under Artaxerxes that was the Zoroastrian king who sent Ezra and Nehemiah to teach Zoroastrianism to the Jews and not Cyrus. Cyrus was just the beginning of the Zoroastrian influence which lasted 500 years.

OK have fun ignoring all that reality.

[Occam's Spork]

None of these things prove that Cyrus was religious, or that he was a Zoroastrian.
This is circumstantial evidence at best.

Cyrus was known only to have honored non-Zoroastrian gods.
Why don't we see any tribute(statues, monuments, etc) paid to his own 'supposed' religion, if he were so devoted?

[Deleted]

Those points - cited by authorities - all are overwhelming proof Cyrus was a Zoroastrian - it was 2,500 years ago and Alexander wiped out a lot of evidence.

But If Strabo and Arrian and Dunkard and even Isaiah are not good enough for you there is no point continuing.

It is overwhelming evidence but it will not move your delusions. There is no way you are ever going to admit your religion is rubbish.

Cyrus was Zoroastrian and the evidence is overwhelming.

However the real imprint of Zoroastrianism was done by Ezra and Nehemiah under the orders of the Zoroastrian King Artaxerxes - and it was Ezra who introduced the Zoroastrian festival and the Vendidad purity laws to the Jews.

Artaxerxes was a Zoroastrian - which is proof Cyrus was.

You are obsessed with Cyrus - but it was Artaxerxes who imposed Zoroastrianism on the Jews - not Cyrus so much.

Try telling me Artaxerxes was not a Zoroastrian - you fool.

[Occam's Spork]

It's all here, Buzz.


"Though Zoroastrianism was never, even in the thinking of its founder, as aggressively monotheistic as, for instance, Judaism or Islām, it does represent an original attempt at unifying under the worship of one supreme god a polytheistic religion comparable to those of the ancient Greeks, Latins, Indians, and other early peoples."

www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/658081/Zoroastrianism

(It is quite possible that Boyce's research has become a bit dated, since her death)

I'm sure you are going to try and argue the Encylopedia Britannica somehow got it wrong.

[Deleted]

It sounds about right.

Its not as aggressive monotheism - but its still monotheistic - as you are a Zoroastrian.

Zoroastrianism is the very first monotheistic religion in history and your religion is a modification of Zoroastrianism - which is why the Bible and even the words of Jesus has Avestan words in it.

[Occam's Spork]

Read it again, slower this time.

[Deleted]

I did - and its fine - its monotheistic - but not as aggressive as Judaism or Islam. It sounds right.

Cyrus prayed like a Zoroastrian, had a daughter with a Zoroastrian name, ruled with Zoroastrian principles, was buried in a Zoroastrian tomb in accordance with Zoroastrian purity laws, had ritual Zoroastrian sacrifices at his tomb every single day for 200 years, and had Zoroastrian symbols carved on the entrance to his tomb which contained Zoroastrian artifacts.

[Deleted]

I like this bit

read it and weep

Founded by the Iranian prophet and reformer Zoroaster in the 6th century bc, the religion contains both monotheistic and dualistic features. It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. For a discussion of the context in which Zoroastrianism arose, see Iranian religion.

www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/658081/Zoroastrianism

[Occam's Spork]

Jun 13, 2013 11:16:41 GMT 10 @buzzock said:

I did - and its fine - its monotheistic - but not as aggressive as Judaism or Islam. It sounds right.

Cyrus prayed like a Zoroastrian, had a daughter with a Zoroastrian name, ruled with Zoroastrian principles, was buried in a Zoroastrian tomb in accordance with Zoroastrian purity laws, had ritual Zoroastrian sacrifices at his tomb every single day for 200 years, and had Zoroastrian symbols carved on the entrance to his tomb which contained Zoroastrian artifacts.

*Sigh* You really aren't getting this.
Let me add some emphasis to make it clearer for you:

"Though Zoroastrianism was never, even in the thinking of its founder, as aggressively monotheistic as, for instance, Judaism or Islām, it does represent an original attempt at unifying under the worship of one supreme god a polytheistic religion comparable to those of the ancient Greeks, Latins, Indians, and other early peoples."

[Deleted]

It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

No you are not getting it

Its monotheistic but not as aggressive as Judaism or Islam and its where they came from.

[Occam's Spork]

It was only monotheistic in the sense that it had a single deity that ruled over the other gods.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2013 11:46:43 GMT 10 Occam's Spork said:

It was only monotheistic in the sense that it had a single deity that ruled over the other gods.

yes yes yes

By George - you've got it

And Ahura-Mazda made the other gods.

And in the same way, YHWH who was married to Asherah, had 70 children - all gods - called the Elohim.

But then the Jews tried to change all that but left clear traces - ye are gods children of the Elyone - who is like you among the gods - you sit in the council of the gods

But then the Jews decided to go monotheistic and did so in the 2nd century BCE and not before.

I'm sure you are going to try and argue the Encylopedia Britannica somehow got it wrong. quote Dib

It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

[Occam's Spork]

Read further:

"All that may safely be said is that Zoroaster lived somewhere in eastern Iran, far from the civilized world of western Asia, before Iran became unified under Cyrus II the Great. If the Achaemenids ever heard of him, they did not see fit to mention his name in their inscriptions nor did they allude to the beings who surrounded the great god and were later to be called the amesha spentas, or “bounteous immortals”—an essential feature of Zoroaster’s doctrine.

Religion under the Achaemenids was in the hands of the Magi, whom Herodotus describes as a Median tribe with special customs, such as exposing the dead, fighting evil animals, and interpreting dreams. Again, the historical connection with Zoroaster—whom Herodotus also ignores—is a hazy one. It is not known when Zoroaster’s doctrine reached western Iran, but it must have been before the time of Aristotle (384–322), who alludes to its dualism.

Darius, when he seized power in 522, had to fight a usurper, Gaumata the Magian, who pretended to be Bardiya, the son of Cyrus the Great and brother of the king Cambyses. This Magian had destroyed cultic shrines, āyadanas, which Darius restored. One possible explanation of these events is that Gaumata had adopted Zoroastrianism, a doctrine that relied on the allegiance of the common people, and therefore destroyed temples or altars to deities of the nobility. Darius, who owed his throne to the support of some noblemen, could not help favouring their cult, although he adopted Auramazda as a means of unifying his empire."

The Persians DID NOT worship Auramazda until the time of Darius.
As I've said all along.
Thank you.

[Deleted]

I'm sure you are going to try and argue the Encylopedia Britannica somehow got it wrong. quote Dib

It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

[Occam's Spork]

"All that may safely be said is that Zoroaster lived somewhere in eastern Iran, far from the civilized world of western Asia, before Iran became unified under Cyrus II the Great. If the Achaemenids ever heard of him, they did not see fit to mention his name in their inscriptions nor did they allude to the beings who surrounded the great god and were later to be called the amesha spentas, or “bounteous immortals”—an essential feature of Zoroaster’s doctrine.

Religion under the Achaemenids was in the hands of the Magi, whom Herodotus describes as a Median tribe with special customs, such as exposing the dead, fighting evil animals, and interpreting dreams. Again, the historical connection with Zoroaster—whom Herodotus also ignores—is a hazy one. It is not known when Zoroaster’s doctrine reached western Iran, but it must have been before the time of Aristotle (384–322), who alludes to its dualism.

Darius, when he seized power in 522, had to fight a usurper, Gaumata the Magian, who pretended to be Bardiya, the son of Cyrus the Great and brother of the king Cambyses. This Magian had destroyed cultic shrines, āyadanas, which Darius restored. One possible explanation of these events is that Gaumata had adopted Zoroastrianism, a doctrine that relied on the allegiance of the common people, and therefore destroyed temples or altars to deities of the nobility. Darius, who owed his throne to the support of some noblemen, could not help favouring their cult, although he adopted Auramazda as a means of unifying his empire."

The Persians DID NOT worship Auramazda until the time of Darius.
As I've said all along.
Thank you.

Anyone know CPR? Buzz's argument is going terminal.

[Occam's Spork]

Jun 13, 2013 11:35:45 GMT 10 @buzzock said:

It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

...So what?
My wife influenced me to eat bran flakes this morning, but I'm unlikely to make it part of my religion.

[Deleted]

I'm sure you are going to try and argue the Encylopedia Britannica somehow got it wrong. quote Dib

It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

It what I have said all along

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2013 11:57:08 GMT 10 Occam's Spork said:

Jun 13, 2013 11:35:45 GMT 10 @buzzock said:

It influenced the other major Western religons—Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

...So what?
My wife influenced me to eat bran flakes this morning, but I'm unlikely to make it part of my religion.

So what?

It means you are a Zoroastrian

[Occam's Spork]

I'm a Zoroastrian because I ate bran flakes?

[Occam's Spork]

Jun 14, 2013 12:00:07 GMT 10 @buzzock said:

Jun 14, 2013 11:57:08 GMT 10 Occam's Spork said:

...So what?
My wife influenced me to eat bran flakes this morning, but I'm unlikely to make it part of my religion.

So what?

It means you are a Zoroastrian

Actually, you are contradicting yourself.
You said Zoroastrians don't have converts.

..So no, It doesn't.

[Deleted]

you may now have to seek help

[Occam's Spork]

Jun 14, 2013 12:08:35 GMT 10 @buzzock said:

you may now have to seek help

If you say so, but even if I follow your advice and get a friend to talk you out of your delusion...
You will still be too mule-headed to change your mind.

[Deleted]

Darius had Daniel as a paid agent and thats where the Zoroastrian Eschatology is introduced - and it was Artaxerxes who really cranks Zoroastrianism up to the Jews.

And the Gathas is the story of Zoroaster and how he converted the followers after convesting Atossa and then Vishtaspa - the Gathas are Old Avestan and that is the foundation of Ahura-Mazda worship.

But the point is - Zoroastrianism taught all the Eschatology and monotheism and the saviour born of a virgin crap and gave it to the Jews and Christians - from Isaiah onwards in the Post Exile part of the Old Testament under Zoroastrian - Pharisee guidance.

Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism, Christianity and Islam - the Abrahamic religions.

game set and match - you lose.

[Occam's Spork]

[Deleted]

Religion is Bullshit - and your religion is Bullshit.