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Post by slartibartfast on May 17, 2013 11:47:59 GMT 10
You can't be a little bit pregnant either, especially not from a supernatural force.
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Post by pim on May 17, 2013 15:56:09 GMT 10
The promise of reward or punishment in the afterlife is central to the Christian message of a personal God. It was part of the appeal of Christianity during its early centuries as a minority cult in the pagan universe that was the Mediterranean Basin in antiquity. Estimates by economic historians put the population of the Roman Empire at about 30 million, of which, it is claimed, more than 50% were in some form of slavery, or bondage. For many of these people, life was nasty, brutish and short. Not all of them. Certain slaves were quite well off. If you were a Greek slave whose task was to be the personal secretary to a Roman Senator then you were probably well off indeed. On the other hand if you were part of that vast multitude of hewers of wood and drawers of water that was the lot of so many slaves, then the Christian message that the world was a "vale of tears" and that there was a personal God who suffered for you and took all the sin of the world onto his shoulders so that you, the least of his people, could have an everlasting reward free from pain, privation and drudgery, was a very seductive one.
But this isn't ancient Rome, and many of us don't live lives of drudgery, pain and privation. To live to my age, 66, with all my teeth, well-fed, in comfort and in robust health (touch wood! See? We haven't left our ancient pagan superstitions completely behind!) was beyond the dreams of the vast majority of people, let alone slaves in the ancient world.
Sonex's question "What is the point?" is spot on. What is the point of an eternity of either singing "For He's A Jolly Good Fellow" in a heavenly choir, or eternal unending torture at the hands of demons in Hell?
This sort of stuff might have worked in previous centuries when life was nasty, brutish and short for most people and death was a release. But not any more.
They'd have to do better than that!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 17:09:15 GMT 10
I will tell you what I know for a fact about Hell - but there is no point. This post is like reading a novel---but already knowing how it ends. ;D es·cha·tol·o·gy /ˌeskəˈtäləjē/ Noun The part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind. Most scholars believe[29] that key concepts of Zoroastrian eschatology and demonology influenced the Abrahamic religions. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZoroastrianismZoroastrianism, from the beginning, has taught that time and God's creation has a beginning, a middle, and an end-time in which all souls will be judged. The Zarathushtrian teachings were later elaborated and illustrated with mythological motifs, many of them borrowed from the pre-Zoroastrian Indo-Iranian gods and goddesses, as well as myths of cosmic conflict from ancient Mesopotamia. Later Zoroastrianism also teaches of a specific sacred time-line, a historical structure for the created world. The Zoroastrians are often credited with introducing eschatology, or the knowledge of the End of Time and its events, into the religious world of both West and East. www.pyracantha.com/Z/zjc3.htmlAvesta eschatology compared with the books of Daniel and Revelations; - Mills, Zoroastrianism is the main document of our eschatology, a fact which should be taken everywhere for granted, as the slightest examination would confirm it. L H Mills From start to finish we have everywhere in Zoroastrianism, the main points of our eschatology. There was no other lore of the period of the oldest Avesta which so expressed the doctrines almost in modern terms. L H Mills It is irrefutable that Judaism is a corruption of Zoroastrianism, and it ought to be widely taught as Professor Lawrence Mills repeatedly said a hundred years ago. That no attempt has been made by the Jewish and Christian religions, by teachers or by scholars, they are proved to be dishonest, and one can only conclude that they are intent on perpetuating the lies that their religions are original. |
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Post by pim on May 17, 2013 17:26:40 GMT 10
Cor blimey you're a repetitive tendentious twit Buzz. Either you're boring us all shitless with your faux esoteric scholasticism regarding the sources of Judaism, or you're boring us shitless with your pathetic attempts at being the board Cassandra about the economy. Either way you're boring us shitless. Tough titties if you don't like the replies that you get, and it'll be a waste of time for you to shriek that I shouldn't contact you for any reason and under any circumstances. I started this thread. If you don't want to have anything to do with me then why come onto a thread that I've started?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 20:02:22 GMT 10
Cor blimey you're a repetitive tendentious twit Buzz. Either you're boring us all shitless with your faux esoteric scholasticism regarding the sources of Judaism, or you're boring us shitless with your pathetic attempts at being the board Cassandra about the economy. Either way you're boring us shitless. Tough titties if you don't like the replies that you get, and it'll be a waste of time for you to shriek that I shouldn't contact you for any reason and under any circumstances. I started this thread. If you don't want to have anything to do with me then why come onto a thread that I've started? This thread is about Eschatology regarding Judaism and Christianity. Faux is a French word for "false". I have quoted Mills who translated Zoroastrian text into English. You in your contemptuous abuse of me have also insulted a great scholar and Oxford don - Lawrence Heyworth Mills. Esoteric Intended for or understood by only a particular group. Well the majority of scholars accept that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism. As you are not a scholar, I expect nothing more from you than bombastic abuse, and you live up to that expectation. If what I say is faux, then Mary Boyce is Faux, as well as LH Mills - so you trample on the reputation of world authorities in their field. What a buffoon you are. As for being a Cassandra, Europe is now in a Depression worse than the 1930s - and its getting worse every week - and I was prescient about it years ago. You are not interested in world shattering events - and you are interested in nothing but the sound of your own words and vanishing up your own arse. This is the Religion section and if I want to make a comment about Eschatology - I bloody well will.  |
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 17, 2013 22:57:22 GMT 10
You can't be a little bit pregnant either, especially not from a supernatural force. Yep, because everyone knows the CREATOR OF THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE, would most certainly be limited by them.  |
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 17, 2013 22:59:20 GMT 10
Cor blimey you're a repetitive tendentious twit Buzz. Either you're boring us all shitless with your faux esoteric scholasticism regarding the sources of Judaism, or you're boring us shitless with your pathetic attempts at being the board Cassandra about the economy. Either way you're boring us shitless. Tough titties if you don't like the replies that you get, and it'll be a waste of time for you to shriek that I shouldn't contact you for any reason and under any circumstances. I started this thread. If you don't want to have anything to do with me then why come onto a thread that I've started? This. You summarized it all in one paragraph here, pim. Well done. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 17, 2013 23:01:41 GMT 10
After failing to make his point, Buzz intends on re-posting his crap ad nauseum until he gets the reactions he desires.
My advice is: If people want him to shut his yap, we ought to stop responding.
He only thrives because he wants an audience.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 23:29:39 GMT 10
I don't post crap.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2013 23:32:24 GMT 10
This post is like reading a novel---but already knowing how it ends. ;D es·cha·tol·o·gy /ˌeskəˈtäləjē/ Noun The part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind. Most scholars believe[29] that key concepts of Zoroastrian eschatology and demonology influenced the Abrahamic religions. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZoroastrianismZoroastrianism, from the beginning, has taught that time and God's creation has a beginning, a middle, and an end-time in which all souls will be judged. The Zarathushtrian teachings were later elaborated and illustrated with mythological motifs, many of them borrowed from the pre-Zoroastrian Indo-Iranian gods and goddesses, as well as myths of cosmic conflict from ancient Mesopotamia. Later Zoroastrianism also teaches of a specific sacred time-line, a historical structure for the created world. The Zoroastrians are often credited with introducing eschatology, or the knowledge of the End of Time and its events, into the religious world of both West and East. www.pyracantha.com/Z/zjc3.htmlAvesta eschatology compared with the books of Daniel and Revelations; - Mills, Zoroastrianism is the main document of our eschatology, a fact which should be taken everywhere for granted, as the slightest examination would confirm it. L H Mills From start to finish we have everywhere in Zoroastrianism, the main points of our eschatology. There was no other lore of the period of the oldest Avesta which so expressed the doctrines almost in modern terms. L H Mills It is irrefutable that Judaism is a corruption of Zoroastrianism, and it ought to be widely taught as Professor Lawrence Mills repeatedly said a hundred years ago. That no attempt has been made by the Jewish and Christian religions, by teachers or by scholars, they are proved to be dishonest, and one can only conclude that they are intent on perpetuating the lies that their religions are original. This is reality - but reality is crap to the deranged. |
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Post by slartibartfast on May 17, 2013 23:50:26 GMT 10
You can't be a little bit pregnant either, especially not from a supernatural force. Yep, because everyone knows the CREATOR OF THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE, would most certainly be limited by them. And who is the is magical creator? Do you have a name for this genius? |
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 18, 2013 1:46:12 GMT 10
Yep, because everyone knows the CREATOR OF THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE, would most certainly be limited by them. And who is the is magical creator? Do you have a name for this genius? He has many names. |
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 18, 2013 1:47:06 GMT 10
Yep, because everyone knows the CREATOR OF THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE, would most certainly be limited by them. V ger wishes to meet the creator.  You will. Someday. Better study for the test, man. |
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Post by slartibartfast on May 18, 2013 7:19:40 GMT 10
The test of life?
Passing that. Due to keeping religion out of my life. Too many indecent people involved with religion.
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Post by fat on May 18, 2013 21:17:09 GMT 10
Dunno about water into wine but I make a reasonable job of turning it back again.  Pim - you state "9. Hell isn't all that interested in sex" What about that film 'The devil in Miss Jones?' |
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 22, 2013 11:21:38 GMT 10
Hell is a place of flaming fire.
Revelation 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”
Revelation 20:14 “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
Revelation 20:15 “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
II Thessalonians 1:8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:”
II Thessalonians 1:9 “Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
Mark 9:43 “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:”
Mark 9:44 “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
Mark 9:45 “And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:”
Mark 9:46 “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
Mark 9:47 “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:”
Mark 9:48 “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
Luke 16:23 “And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”
Luke 16:24 “And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
Jude 1:7 “Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”
Hell is a place of smothering smoke.
Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Hell is a place of dismal darkness.
Jude 1:13 “Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.”
Hell is a place screaming and wailing.
Matthew 22:13 “Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Hell is a place of everlasting chains.
Jude 1:6 “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”
Hell is a place of flesh-eating worms.
Isaiah 14:9 “Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.”
Isaiah 14:10 “All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?”
Isaiah 14:11 “Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.”
Isaiah 14:12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”
Isaiah 66:24 “And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
Hell is a place of no rest day nor night – no sleep.
Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 12:06:58 GMT 10
And Frodo must take the ring to Mount Doom or Sauron will take control of Middle Earth.
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 22, 2013 12:13:47 GMT 10
You have your religion, and I have mine. |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 13:34:43 GMT 10
You have your religion, and I have mine. i have no religion because I have no god. You are a Zoroastrian - but nobody can tell you |
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 23, 2013 11:18:38 GMT 10
Wrong. You are as obsessed about your beliefs and speak more about God than any pious religious zealot I know. Your intolerance has caused you to become the very thing you hate. (Belief in a deity is not a requisite for religion. Zen Buddhism is classified as a 'religion', without a deity) If you think I am wrong, review your posts and tell me you haven't made nearly every thread about your beliefs and your book. (Then you have the audacity to label others 'narcissists' ) |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 16:05:14 GMT 10
I am interested in religion - most atheists are well read on the subject actually and I enjoy discussing the subject.
Buddhism is actually a Greek religion that exists because of Alexander and the Buddhists have spiritual beliefs and I have none at all. Buddhism was also strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism - read Mary Boyce.
I do not mention my book - anywhere that I know of. So you are a liar - I do not ever mention my book - you do though - and you have never written a book yourself and never will.
Narcissists are very easily seen and recognized - you qualify.
Oh and Hell is something else the Zoroastrians gave to the Jews - the Jewish and Christian Eschatology was copied from the Zoroastrians.
Before the Babylonian Exile, the Jews didn't have the notion - only after the Zoroastrians give it to them did they adopt Hell as a concept.
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 24, 2013 9:40:37 GMT 10
No.
If you were interested in religion, you'd ask what people believed--not tell them.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 12:30:25 GMT 10
I read a lot about religion and I am very interested in the subject.
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Post by Occam's Spork on May 24, 2013 20:58:43 GMT 10
Reading a lot about medical procedures does not give you the credentials to be a surgeon.
Reading a lot about religion does not give you the credentials to be a scholar.
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Post by slartibartfast on May 24, 2013 21:13:52 GMT 10
So you reading the Bible means nothing then.
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