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Post by pim on Aug 23, 2021 8:00:31 GMT 10
The fall of Kabul: false friends for over sixty four years.By Greg Lockhart Aug 23, 2021 johnmenadue.com/the-fall-of-kabul-false-friends-for-over-sixty-four-years/On hearing of the fall of Kabul a few days ago on 15 August, I recalled how shocked I had been by the fall of Saigon on 30 April 1975. As an Australian soldier who served in the Vietnam War between September 1972 and March 1973, I was an adviser to the old Army of the Republic of Vietnam and commanded the Australian Embassy Guard in Saigon. Since 1975, I’ve also spent a lot of time thinking and writing about the nature and outcome of the Vietnam War. So it is that, as the fall of Kabul has come to pass, I find myself more saddened than shocked by that event. Now the data rushes in on the trillions of dollars squandered in supporting the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and the $85 billion spent on its army over almost 20 years. The excuses multiply. The casualties are enumerated: some 116,000 Afghan soldiers and police, plus 51,000 Taliban fighters are currently said to have been killed; while some 2,500 American soldiers, almost 4,000 more American civilian contractors, and 41 Australian soldiers have been killed. Then there are all those injured and left homeless. These accounts remind me, however, that by the standards of the day the scale of both the corruption and the casualties in America’s Indochina War were at least as staggering. There whole phantom army formations were on the payroll. At the same time, the real-life casualties there were many times higher than in Afghanistan. Figures in the high estimate range for the 1955-75 period, dominated by the so-called ‘American war’, are as follows: over three million Vietnamese and up to half a million Cambodians and Laotians were killed and millions more injured and left homeless. The ‘American war’ also generated the conditions that led to the killing of up to two million Cambodians under the Khmer Rouge between 1975 and 1979 when the Vietnamese stopped it. Also, in Vietnam, at least 47,434 US soldiers were killed and some 250,000 wounded, while 521 Australians are officially listed as killed and 3,131 wounded. Any reflections on the human costs of both wars also need to include the American and Australian veterans who have died from suicide since both. Altogether, an argument might be made that puts the US holocaust and its aftermath in Indochina right up there in the big-league nudging Nazi Germany’s. The fall of Kabul is thus a reminder that the sort of American state sponsored destruction we have witnessed in Afghanistan has been going on since at least 1957. For that was when the US bankrolled the Republic of Vietnam – as they did the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan between 2004 and 2021. Then, the US Army built the Army of the Republic of Vietnam in its own image, which is to say around US-style heavy weapons technologies designed for large scale conventional war – much as they did again in Afghanistan. Pretty much the same in Iraq, also, lest we forget. Eventually, these US built political and military super spreaders of corruption and incompetence as well as violence in local peasant and tribal-type social environments were doomed to fail in the face of determined small scale guerrilla style enemy forces with superior strategies. Equally inevitable in this context was the US state’s final betrayal of its own and allied soldiers and of the whole of the indigenous states and armies it created in both conflicts. Nixon and Kissinger betrayed their people during the Paris peace talks in 1972 and, in the end, Trump’s incompetent negotiations with the Taliban in February 2021 have done something similar. Therefore, it has been hard not to think over the last few days of all those people the American government has set up for terrible falls by proving to have been a tremendously ignorant, self-centred and, indeed, false friend for over 64 years. I have also been wondering if the Australian government, which cunningly encouraged and supported the US involvement in Vietnam and Afghanistan, or the Australian people have yet begun to think deeply about the central element of their sense of their place in the world: the American Alliance?
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Post by pim on Aug 23, 2021 7:15:29 GMT 10
When Saigon fell and the Vietnam War came to its ignominious end for the United States, the Australian prime minister of the day Malcolm Fraser stepped up to the plate and showed leadership by taking in waves of Vietnamese refugees. Recall that this was only months after the most divisive event in Australian political history, the Dismissal of 11 November 1975. Even so Fraser was able to reach out to Opposition Leader Gough Whitlam and together they ensured that the intake of tens of thousands of Vietnamese refugees did not become a divisive issue. That took leadership.
Ten years later when the Chinese government sent tanks to crush the student protesters in Tiananmen Square in Beijing in an event that we call the Tiananmen Square Massacre and which to this day the regime in Beijing pretends never happened, the then Australian prime minister Bob Hawke stepped up to the plate and offered immediate asylum to all 40 000 Chinese students enrolled at Australian universities. It wasn’t workshopped, there was no committee process and it didn’t go through Cabinet. This was Bob Hawke’s “captain’s call” par excellence and quite probably the finest moment of his prime ministership.
With the fall of Kabul and the “forever war” in Afghanistan ending in chaos and suffering for the Afghan people, Scott Morrison’s prime ministership is presented with the same defining moment as Malcolm Fraser with the fall of Saigon and Bob Hawke with Tiananmen. Both events brought out the mettle of each of those two prime ministers. The current events in Kabul will do the same for Scott Morrison. He said that the Australian ADF deployment in Afghanistan had been in defence of “freedom” and that the sacrifices made by ADF soldiers who had fallen in combat were consistent with “Australian values”. Will Morrison step up to the plate in support of the Afghan people in the way Fraser stepped up to support the Vietnamese people and Hawke stepped up to support the Chinese? What are the “Australian values” that Scott Morrison invokes worth?
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Post by pim on Aug 23, 2021 0:03:10 GMT 10
Ask Matt how to say that in glossolalia and we’re set
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Post by pim on Aug 22, 2021 23:56:27 GMT 10
Yep! Trump pulled the oldest political trick in the book of an outgoing government that’s just lost an election: lay in a few land mines for the incoming government of your opponents. That way they get to inherit a clusterfuck that you set up but they get the blame for.
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Post by pim on Aug 22, 2021 23:50:49 GMT 10
Like ... Pentecostals you mean? With their glossolalia? Seriously! it’s what these happy clappers call when they do their “speaking in tongues” thing. What society are you talking about? I go to Salisbury every Monday afternoon to help out with the homework club for teenage refugee kids. Black faces, brown faces, hijabs everywhere. I might duck down to the Parabanks shopping mall to buy my lefty newspaper of choice the Saturday Paper (you’d hate it Matt) beforehand and it’s a verifiable cornucopia of Central Asia, South Asia, First Nations people from the APY lands - and whatever it is that they’re speaking it isn’t English - and sub-Saharan Africa. The food shops are to be seen to be believed. At our local neighbourhood primary school on the weekends you’ll see Indian faces on the sports field playing cricket. And don’t think for a moment that this constitutes “assimilation”. India has become Ground Zero for world cricket. It’s their game now.
I love going to the Central Markets in downtown Adelaide. Like Salisbury it’s multicultural Australia in all its richness and diversity. But I suspect that’s not quite what you mean by “assimilate” Matt. I wish you a long happy and healthy life Matt old son. May you live long enough to know and hug your Eurasian Muslim great grandchildren.
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Post by pim on Aug 22, 2021 16:10:38 GMT 10
She votes too
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Post by pim on Aug 22, 2021 16:06:15 GMT 10
How many of these people were vaccinated? How many people wore masks? I saw a poster that read “Jesus is my vaccine”. I mean FFS there’s someone who needs some sense beaten into him .. or her ... whoever. If those rallies, especially the one in Melbourne, turn out to be super spreader events then those Covidiots deserve everything that they get. Throw the book at them.
Who likes lockdowns! Anyone? Everyone is inconvenienced, everyone’s kids are having their schooling disrupted. As Patricia Karvelas said in one of her podcasts, talking about how her own kids were bearing up: “No kid should have to spend so much time locked up with their parents and away from kids their own age!” She’s right isn’t she? How many small businesses do you know of personally that are either going down the gurgler or are really doing it tough? How many people have lost their jobs? Retirees are doing ok IF they are members of an indexed government superannuation pension. But if they’re self-funded with their income derived from investments they could be doing it tough. Most people however are doing the right thing and trying to organise to get themselves vaccinated. It’s then that they run into supply problems. They try online or through their GP to make an appointment to get the jab and find that the queue is impossibly long and slow moving. Now that’s disheartening and it’s down to the clusterfuck that the government of “I’m not smirking so much anymore” Scotty from Marketing has made of procuring enough vaccine. You want the lockdowns to end? Congratulations, so does everyone. But the vaccine shambles have led to supply and distribution problems which have left lockdowns as the only shot left in the locker.
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Post by pim on Aug 22, 2021 12:47:26 GMT 10
It could easily have been Trump in the cartoon instead of Biden, when you consider the narrowness of the Biden win as you break down the electoral college votes. Recall that Trump himself (falsely) claims that the elections were stolen - a claim believed by certain members of this very board and certainly is believed by the publication Flag and Cross which published Branco’s scurrilous cartoon. Recall also that it was Trump who dealt with the Taliban and set up the withdrawal that Biden put into effect. Biden’s problem is not so much that he was the author of the Afghanistan débâcle as that this happened on Biden’s watch. You’ll always have to be careful when you win an election from opposition against a hostile incumbent: he’s bound to leave land mines for you to step on. For Trump it was simple: set up a clusterfuck for Biden to take the blame for. It’ll probably work.
As regards the Branco cartoon, I noticed the little dog whistle regarding Biden’s son. Wait till Trump’s brats become an issue again. A steak marked Afghanistan for the Taliban and a bowl of Taiwan noodles for Xi Jinping.
Too early to say regarding the Taliban. America will bleed for as long as it takes to get all their people out - which by the looks of things will be well before the government of Scotty from Marketing finishes faffing around regarding our people (including the Afghans who helped and supported us), denying the problem .and making self-serving excuses (“I don’t fly a Hercules, mate!”). The Australians of course closed their Embassy ages ago so we’ve had nobody on the ground there to give the Australian authorities the intelligence they need and to make the necessary evacuation arrangements. But one day the news cycle will move on and Scotty from Marketing hopes that’ll be before the election. But this time next year will the Taliban really be tucking into its big Afghanistan steak or will it be caught up in a civil war of its own? Watch this space. In the meantime the Chinese are moving like a rat going up a drainpipe: Afghanistan fits right into China’s Belt and Road program and in terms of the wealth in the ground waiting to be exploited, Afghanistan is sitting on a mother lode of an estimated USD $$ trillion in lithium - an essential and very strategic mineral in the dawning age of e-communication and e-vehicles. Some financial commentators are calling Afghanistan a potential Saudi Arabia of lithium. With that sort of potential and with the Americans vacating the terrain, others are not going to lose time filling the void. The Taliban won’t have the steak all to themselves.
Regarding Xi and Taiwan, just remember that Taiwan is not a separate nation. The Taiwanese certainly don’t make that claim. They call themselves the Republic of China and are the successors to the Kuomintang of Chiang Kaishek which had been the legal government of China until 1949 when it was defeated by the Maoists. The reason it set up on Taiwan was because Taiwan was sovereign Chinese territory. Its claim was not that it was a government in exile but the lawful government of the nation of China continuing to exercise sovereignty on Chinese territory. The dispute between Beijing and Taipei is not whether or not Taiwan is an independent nation but which regime speaks for all of China. Until Richard Nixon dropped recognition of Taipei and recognised Beijing, the regime in Taipei sat as a permanent member of the Security Council representing China in the UN. As countries around the world recognised Beijing, Taipei was kicked off the Security Council and out of the UN and its place was taken by Beijing. It’s true that the integrity of Taipei has been guaranteed by Washington but if Mainland China invades Taiwan (and why would it but what the hell let’s go with the scenario) the Americans won’t be able to defend Taiwan without a war with China going nuclear. Question: would the Americans sacrifice Los Angeles for Taiwan? If Taiwan ends up a smoking smouldering ruin (it’s only half the size of Tasmania but with the population of Australia) and LA a glowing radioactive wasteland, who wins? Would Biden countenance it? Would Trump?
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Post by pim on Aug 22, 2021 8:13:52 GMT 10
Don’t let Trickles’ flea farts bother you Ponto. I still have him on ignore and don’t look at his posts. It saves time.
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Post by pim on Aug 22, 2021 7:09:41 GMT 10
This latest outbreak that is fairly rampant going across NSW started with one bloke, a airport shuttle bus driver, who didn't want to get vaccinated.....there is no certainty with covid. ... or more accurately didn’t want the AZ vaccine that was available and that he was entitled to given his age and occupation and thought he’d hang out for the Pfizer vaccine that wasn’t available yet. Don’t be too hard on the guy, he’s just a gormless dude like thee and me who’d listened to the “advice” of the Prime Miniature and the then Deputy Prime Miniature (whose name everybody’s forgotten since Barnaby Beetrooter took his job) that it wasn’t a “race” and the pixie-like Miniature for Health (Rhyming Slang) Hunt who told everyone that it was okay to wait for Pfizer if you were worried about AZ. That’s why he was unvaccinated. He was a solid citizen who did the best he could with the confused mixed messages and utter lack of leadership on the part of the midget Lilliputians who pretend to be the government of this country. This is down to them.
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Post by pim on Aug 22, 2021 0:19:59 GMT 10
What a shame. Canberra has long cold winters. The locals say you turn your heating on on Anzac Day and don’t turn it off until the October long weekend. So the two weeks of Floriade, beginning with the October long weekend, is the great Canberra spring festival. I hope they can bring Floriade back next year ...
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 23:23:16 GMT 10
Pauvre con ...
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 23:16:41 GMT 10
That’s why there’ll be a booster. Early next year. Mr Smirk and Mirrors Scotty from Marketing said so and he’s the Prime Miniature who praises the lord, waves his arms, does the happy clappy thing, speaks in forked tongues, sings hallelujah and never takes responsibility for anything. It’s always someone else’s fault. How could I fail to believe and trust a man like that!?!
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 17:42:53 GMT 10
I never thought I'd live to cheer on the cops!
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 17:37:07 GMT 10
Qui ça, Matt? Il est en train de lécher les couilles à Trump ...
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 17:33:51 GMT 10
<sigh> you thought of me. I'm touched! And you're right. It is eye candy. My TV doesn't work if I try to tune it to Sky News
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 17:30:16 GMT 10
Mais il est parti où, Matt? Il vient, il pète un coup, et puis il fout le camp. Mais ça va pas, ça!
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 17:26:32 GMT 10
Mais tu devrais comprendre, Toutes, que les Français ne vont jamais se plier devant la langue des Rosbifs
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 17:09:58 GMT 10
RW ninconpoopas gobblegookans zijn kiss menuttens Ya....ha ha. Ja die klootzakken kunnen gewoon mijn kont kussen
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 16:23:36 GMT 10
Piers Morgan would make Alan Jones look like a paragon of probity and temperate speech
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 16:21:37 GMT 10
Want me to trust the vaccine? Let's revoke the vax makers' liability waivers and see how many are still offering the vaccine 1 year from now. Occam nobody can make you trust the vaccine or any other therapy. People trust all sorts of dodgy stuff that they put into their bodies. I smoked for decades and kicked the habit about 12 -13 years ago. I'm starting to forget how long ago it was that I smoked by last "fag" (no, I didn't smoke homosexuals, I bat strictly for the other team). Isn't that wonderful! However while I gave up over a decade ago, I smoked for decades and I shudder to think of the toxins I inhaled into my lungs and thus into my bloodstream over such a long period of time. I'm on medication for cholestorol and heartburn and I take aspirin as a blood thinner. Please don't quiz me too closely on the "stuff" I'm swallowing every day. It's on prescription from my GP and I trust him. The aspirin is something you can buy over the counter without a prescription. Dirt cheap actually if you buy the chemist chain's own brand: you can get a pack of 110 aspirin pills for a little under $10. Probably made in India. I must confess I haven't looked at the fine print. I just pop 'em down the throat. I recall my late Dad in his declining years was a walking pharmacopoeia: he'd have a box in which all his medication was organised and it became a bit of a daily ritual for him. It's all down to trust. You're absolutely right. For my part I trust the regulatory authorities and was happy to bare my arm to have the AZ vaccination injected into it. We don't live in a dictatorship and if you don't trust the vaccine then feel free to cower at home as the rest of the world opens up and people start participating again, flashing their vaccination certificates cheerfully. I'll certainly cheerfully show mine!
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 16:02:24 GMT 10
Vaffanculo malakas sporikonuttus... Nou kerel stel je niet zo aan. Je hoeft niet zo te vloeken. Meanwhile, what's noteworthy is the influence of English in online chatrooms in other languages. Intussen, wat merkwaardig is, is de invloed van het Engels in online chatrooms in andere talenTry this Dutch bureaucratic gobbledegook. Don't worry, I'll give you the equivalent English gobbledegook as a subtitle (called "ondertitel" in Dutch) ... tegenstelling tot e-mail in staat na te gaan of de andere gebruiker on line is en er dus conversatie in real time mogelijk is= Instant messaging is much quicker than e-mail, and unlike e-mail enables the user to know if the other user is on-line and allows instant conversation.
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 14:36:48 GMT 10
Matthewρθε ο Ματθαίος, πέταξε, έφυγε
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 11:57:51 GMT 10
To claim, as the title of this thread does, that “they” (which is as fuzzy and waffly a pronoun as Matt’s “we”) want to arrest and jail the unvaccinated is not what I would characterise as telling the truth.
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Post by pim on Aug 21, 2021 11:49:55 GMT 10
Occam are you debating on the basis of the status of abortion such as it exists in North America? The issues are different here where abortion comes under the criminal law of the various State jurisdictions. It will vary from state to state but by and large abortion has been decriminalised in this country. Under Common Law, the foetus under current Australian law appears to have little protection as it is not a legal 'person' or 'human being' until it completely exits its mother by being born alive. You might agree or disagree on ethical or philosophical grounds. I expect you’d strongly disagree and that’s fine. So does the Catholic Church which takes a totally contrarian position on abortion, divorce and contraception and these three issues more than any other caused me to part company with Rome. I’ve been in recovery ever since. It’s the rehab that isn’t working all that well.
But here’s the thing: the law is what it is over here and the liberalisation of abortion law, and family law didn’t occur in a vacuum. As an aside I believe that there are all sorts of restrictions surrounding the inclusion of oral contraceptives on the taxpayer funded Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Salem help me out here! Rather than get lost in the weeds on detail it seems that on the issue of contraception it’s still a work in progress in this country. But abortion is legal. What you claim about a foetus is not supported in law in this country. So if you debate abortion with an Australian, she is going to come from a very different legal standpoint than the one you’re used to.
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