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Post by KTJ on Mar 2, 2018 13:21:18 GMT 10
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 3, 2018 4:16:30 GMT 10
Ah well now ... yes ... we all know that Narnia is real eh? an' all an' all an' all ... An atheist turned "occult follower" turned Christian. (Is he related to Matte?) Then again, from a different fictional author ... some wise words: "... if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."Were you also aware that Lewis Carol was a priest?
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 3, 2018 8:57:23 GMT 10
Ah well now ... yes ... we all know that Narnia is real eh? an' all an' all an' all ... An atheist turned "occult follower" turned Christian. (Is he related to Matte?) Then again, from a different fictional author ... some wise words: "... if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."Occult follower? Be mindful of stating facts and not opinions, Monk.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 3, 2018 21:48:48 GMT 10
Occult follower? Be mindful of stating facts and not opinions, Monk. C. S. Lewis From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Clive Staples Lewis (29 November 1898 – 22 November 1963) was a British novelist, poet, academic, medievalist, literary critic, essayist, lay theologian, broadcaster, lecturer, and Christian apologist. He held academic positions at both Oxford University (Magdalen College, 1925–1954) and Cambridge University (Magdalene College, 1954–1963). He is best known for his works of fiction, especially The Screwtape Letters, The Chronicles of Narnia, and The Space Trilogy, and for his non-fiction Christian apologetics, such as Mere Christianity, Miracles, and The Problem of Pain. Lewis and fellow novelist J. R. R. Tolkien were close friends. They both served on the English faculty at Oxford University, and were active in the informal Oxford literary group known as the Inklings. According to Lewis's memoir Surprised by Joy, he was baptised in the Church of Ireland, but fell away from his faith during adolescence. Lewis returned to Anglicanism at the age of 32, owing to the influence of Tolkien and other friends, and he became an "ordinary layman of the Church of England".[1] Lewis's faith profoundly affected his work, and his wartime radio broadcasts on the subject of Christianity brought him wide acclaim. Lewis wrote more than 30 books,[2] which have been translated into more than 30 languages and have sold millions of copies. The books that make up The Chronicles of Narnia have sold the most and have been popularised on stage, TV, radio, and cinema. His philosophical writings are widely cited by Christian apologists from many denominations. In 1956, Lewis married American writer Joy Davidman; she died of cancer four years later at the age of 45. Lewis died on 22 November 1963 from renal failure, one week before his 65th birthday. In 2013, on the 50th anniversary of his death, Lewis was honoured with a memorial in Poets' Corner in Westminster Abbey. His works entered the public domain in 2014 in countries where copyright expires 50 years after the death of the creator, such as Canada. Biography Childhood Clive Staples Lewis was born in Belfast, Ireland, on 29 November 1898.[3] His father was Albert James Lewis (1863–1929), a solicitor whose father Richard had come to Ireland from Wales during the mid-19th century. His mother was Florence Augusta Lewis, née Hamilton (1862–1908), known as Flora, the daughter of a Church of Ireland priest, and great grand-daughter of both Bishop Hugh Hamilton and John Staples. He had an elder brother, Warren Hamilton Lewis.[4][5] When he was four, his dog Jacksie was killed by a car, and he announced that his name was now Jacksie. At first, he would answer to no other name, but later accepted Jack, the name by which he was known to friends and family for the rest of his life.[6] When he was seven, his family moved into "Little Lea", the family home of his childhood, in the Strandtown area of East Belfast.[7] As a boy, Lewis was fascinated with anthropomorphic animals; he fell in love with Beatrix Potter's stories and often wrote and illustrated his own animal stories. He and his brother Warnie created the world of Boxen, inhabited and run by animals. Lewis loved to read; his father's house was filled with books, and he felt that finding a book to read was as easy as walking into a field and "finding a new blade of grass".[8] Lewis was schooled by private tutors until age 9, when his mother died in 1908 from cancer. His father then sent him to live and study at Wynyard School in Watford, Hertfordshire. Lewis's brother had enrolled there three years previously. The school was closed not long afterwards due to a lack of pupils; the headmaster Robert "Oldie" Capron was soon after committed to a psychiatric hospital. Lewis then attended Campbell College in the east of Belfast about a mile from his home, but left after a few months due to respiratory problems. He was then sent to the health-resort town of Malvern, Worcestershire, where he attended the preparatory school Cherbourg House, which Lewis calls "Chartres" in his autobiography. It was during this time that Lewis abandoned his childhood Christian faith and became an atheist, becoming interested in mythology and the occult.[9] In September 1913, Lewis enrolled at Malvern College, where he remained until the following June. He found the school socially competitive.[10] After leaving Malvern, he studied privately with William T. Kirkpatrick, his father's old tutor and former headmaster of Lurgan College.[11] As a teenager, Lewis was wonder-struck by the songs and legends of what he called Northernness, the ancient literature of Scandinavia preserved in the Icelandic sagas. These legends intensified an inner longing he later called "joy". He also grew to love nature; its beauty reminded him of the stories of the North, and the stories of the North reminded him of the beauties of nature. His teenage writings moved away from the tales of Boxen, and he began using different art forms, such as epic poetry and opera, to try to capture his new-found interest in Norse mythology and the natural world. Studying with Kirkpatrick ("The Great Knock", as Lewis afterwards called him) instilled in him a love of Greek literature and mythology and sharpened his debate and reasoning skills. In 1916, Lewis was awarded a scholarship at University College, Oxford.[12] Within months of entering Oxford, the British Army shipped him to France to fight in the First World War.[11] His experience of the horror of war confirmed his atheism. Return to Christianity Lewis was raised in a religious family that attended the Church of Ireland. He became an atheist at age 15, though he later described his young self as being paradoxically "angry with God for not existing".[34] His early separation from Christianity began when he started to view his religion as a chore and a duty; around this time, he also gained an interest in the occult, as his studies expanded to include such topics.[35] Lewis quoted Lucretius (De rerum natura, 5.198–9) as having one of the strongest arguments for atheism:[36] Nequaquam nobis divinitus esse paratam Naturam rerum; tanta stat praedita culpa Had God designed the world, it would not be A world so frail and faulty as we see.
Lewis's interest in the works of George MacDonald was part of what turned him from atheism. This can be seen particularly well through this passage in Lewis's The Great Divorce, chapter nine, when the semi-autobiographical main character meets MacDonald in Heaven:
... I tried, trembling, to tell this man all that his writings had done for me. I tried to tell how a certain frosty afternoon at Leatherhead Station when I had first bought a copy of Phantastes (being then about sixteen years old) had been to me what the first sight of Beatrice had been to Dante: Here begins the new life. I started to confess how long that Life had delayed in the region of imagination merely: how slowly and reluctantly I had come to admit that his Christendom had more than an accidental connexion with it, how hard I had tried not to see the true name of the quality which first met me in his books is Holiness.[38]
He eventually returned to Christianity, having been influenced by arguments with his Oxford colleague and Christian friend J. R. R. Tolkien, whom he seems to have met for the first time on 11 May 1926, and the book The Everlasting Man by G. K. Chesterton. Lewis vigorously resisted conversion, noting that he was brought into Christianity like a prodigal, "kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance to escape".[39] He described his last struggle in Surprised by Joy:
You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen [College, Oxford], night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England.[40]
After his conversion to theism in 1929, Lewis converted to Christianity in 1931, following a long discussion and late-night walk with his close friends Tolkien and Hugo Dyson. He records making a specific commitment to Christian belief while on his way to the zoo with his brother. He became a member of the Church of England – somewhat to the disappointment of Tolkien, who had hoped that he would join the Catholic Church.[41][page needed][incomplete short citation]
Lewis was a committed Anglican who upheld a largely orthodox Anglican theology, though in his apologetic writings, he made an effort to avoid espousing any one denomination. In his later writings, some believe that he proposed ideas such as purification of venial sins after death in purgatory (The Great Divorce and Letters to Malcolm) and mortal sin (The Screwtape Letters), which are generally considered to be Roman Catholic teachings, although they are also widely held in Anglicanism (particularly in high church Anglo-Catholic circles). Regardless, Lewis considered himself an entirely orthodox Anglican to the end of his life, reflecting that he had initially attended church only to receive communion and had been repelled by the hymns and the poor quality of the sermons. He later came to consider himself honoured by worshipping with men of faith who came in shabby clothes and work boots and who sang all the verses to all the hymns.[42]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._S._Lewisp.s. followerNOUN A person who supports and admires a particular person or set of ideas. A person who takes an active interest in a particular activity. en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/followerBTW ... C.S. Lewis would be the poster-boy patient for Psychoanalysts! Look at the childhood trauma and effects on him. No wonder he turned out to be a nutter. I didn't read any mention of him being an occult follower.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 3, 2018 22:03:20 GMT 10
Were you also aware that Lewis Carol was a priest? Point being, fictional authors would naturally fall for another fictional work ... The Bible. BTW ... funny how yet another fictional author started up his very own fictional religion - L. Ron Hubbard ring a bell? Hey! Some "spooky" links gong on here eh? Hubbard rhymes with cupboard ... wardrobe a kind of cupboard for clothes ... AND a "gateway" to Narnia! May Xenu (also called Xemu) be with you. Nonsense, Francis Galton was a naturalist and a believer in evolution. Does that make you a believer in eugenics, Phil? Hitler's idea of a master race came from Galton's book. Does that make you a Nazi?
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 3, 2018 22:12:23 GMT 10
Hey, I am a supernatural god. I don't need to put up any proof, because the religious idiot at this group says only faith is needed. So bow down and worship me you mere mortals. BTW....I didn't even need to use a computer to post this, but merely used my godly powers. I don't need to prove I posted that way because I am a supernatural god …… according to the spork's logic. Would you be willing to die and return from the dead? The Christian God did. Put up or shut up I say!
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 3:38:44 GMT 10
Nonsense, Francis Galton was a naturalist and a believer in evolution. Does that make you a believer in eugenics, Phil? Hitler's idea of a master race came from Galton's book. Does that make you a Nazi? What the fuck are you talking about? BTW Godwin's law has been supported I see! Oh Phil, you are a book. And I've already read you.😂
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Post by KTJ on Mar 4, 2018 8:28:34 GMT 10
Would you be willing to die and return from the dead? The Christian God did. Put up or shut up I say! Can you PROVE that is anything other than a delusional fairytale?
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 9:49:57 GMT 10
Oh Phil, you are a book. And I've already read you.😂 Seriously Ron, I'm tired of having to follow you down so many rabbit holes. In my opinion, you're an idiot. Just leave me alone, I'm sick of your shit. That works out for both of us, then... 'cause I don't have a shit to give about your opinion.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 9:51:29 GMT 10
Would you be willing to die and return from the dead? The Christian God did. Put up or shut up I say! Can you PROVE that is anything other than a delusional fairytale? Mainstream Historians believe in a historical Jesus. I don't have to prove a thing.
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Post by KTJ on Mar 4, 2018 10:10:01 GMT 10
Mainstrean Historians “BELIEVE”.
Kinda says it all....unless something can be seen, or heard, or smelled, or tasted, or touched, or measured, or calculated mathematically, then all you have is “BELIEVE” without any proof whatsoever. Which makes it patently obvious that people who merely “BELIEVE” are gullible simpletons who are simply asking to be conned by charlatans pushing delusional, unproven bullshit.
Note, that I don't deny that somebody called Jesus Christ existed. There are plenty of other historical records other than that bullshit religious book. It's just the unproven supernatural crap that I refuse to believe without proof. I guess that makes me more intelligent that people who believe stuff without actually requiring proof, 'cause they are ripe for exploitation by con-artists & charlatans.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 10:14:17 GMT 10
Your empiricism is self-defeating. Science cannot be "seen, or heard, or smelled, or tasted, or touched, or measured, or calculated mathematically."Science is a philosophy, it cannot be performed on itself; neither can you use science on science to check it's validity. So if you cannot believe in a God for lack of this criteria, then by that same standard you can't believe in science either.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 10:34:25 GMT 10
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 10:37:09 GMT 10
science
noun
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.Unlike religion, in science, if the evidence does not support a theory, the theory is thrown out. Actually, I'll make a small change to that ... Many religions (almost all) have been thrown out. It's just a question of time. For example - how many people still follow the religions of the ancient Egyptians? Pretty talkative for a guy who wants to be left alone, aren't ya?
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Post by KTJ on Mar 4, 2018 10:39:29 GMT 10
Until you PROVE your god delusion is REAL, then all this discussion is merely pissing into the wind.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 10:41:48 GMT 10
science
noun
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.Unlike religion, in science, if the evidence does not support a theory, the theory is thrown out. Science is a method of investigation, not a belief system. Science and belief by faith, are not mutually exclusive concepts.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 10:44:08 GMT 10
Until you PROVE your god delusion is REAL, then all this discussion is merely pissing into the wind. Then so is your philosophical need to prove everything. We are at an impasse. As for the rest of your frothing, rewatch the video until you catch the relevance of the satire.
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Post by KTJ on Mar 4, 2018 10:49:53 GMT 10
As for the rest of your frothing, rewatch the video until you catch the relevance of the satire. THIS is considerably more relevant than your bullshit religious video....
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 10:51:01 GMT 10
Science is a method of investigation, not a belief system. Science and belief by faith, are not mutually exclusive concepts. Now you are arguing against your initial point. "Philosophy of science" vs science as a method of investigation. A method is based on philosophical principles. You can't perform science unless some principles go unquestioned. (Such as the Law of non-contradiction)
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 10:52:01 GMT 10
As for the rest of your frothing, rewatch the video until you catch the relevance of the satire. THIS is considerably more relevant than your bullshit religious video.... You are a proven idiot. It's not a religious video. I wager you never even watched it.
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Post by Gort on Mar 4, 2018 10:54:59 GMT 10
This could go around in circles again for a while, but I don't intend to keep this going.
Just to reiterate: people stubbornly cling to a religious belief in the face of lack of evidence (even evidence in contradiction to aspects of that religious belief), as opposed to science: where any particular theory gets confined to the dustbin when the evidence points to that theory being wrong or unsupported.
Bye for now.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 11:09:31 GMT 10
You are a proven idiot. It's not a religious video. I wager you never even watched it. Just on a "point of order" ... that video does in fact come from the Lakeside Institute of Theology. *Hence, most people would agree that it can be referred to as a "religious video". Interesting Bias you have there, Phil. Most open-minded people would call videos that pertain to religion, religious.
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Post by KTJ on Mar 4, 2018 11:10:26 GMT 10
Yep....the demented Spork thinks I'm too stupid to notice where his bullshit video comes from.
I ALWAYS check the source, then use a search engine to look into the background of whichever organisation uploaded it.
Unlike Sporky who “blindly believes” just 'cause some book written by various savages over many centuries tells him to.
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 11:12:08 GMT 10
Yep....the demented Spork thinks I'm too stupid to notice where his bullshit video comes from. I ALWAYS check the source, then use a search engine to look into the background of whichever organisation uploaded it. Unlike Sporky who “blindly believes” just 'cause some book written by various savages over many centuries tells him to. So you are interested in information, only if it comes from a secular-humanist source? How very one-sided of you. Most people refer to that as 'propaganda'
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Post by Occam's Spork on Mar 4, 2018 11:17:12 GMT 10
Interesting Bias you have there, Phil. Most open-minded people would call videos that pertain to religion, religious. I really must away ... but yes, I admit I am biased. I strive to operate in an evidence based framework. Can you prove that for me, Mr Crap? ...Awww don't walk away mad, now.
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